3-way control valve panel

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Do any of you guys have a dual 3-way seperate control panel for washing your R.O. that mounts on the wall?

If so do you have all 4 lines off the bottom valves running to your wash tank or do you have say the right outlet running off the concentrate valve piped to a seperate bucket to catch all the concentrate that is flushed from the machine just before or during a short rinse to help save the concentrate left within the vessel?

I'm thinking that is the way i will pipe mine up as it could add up to a couple of gals of syrup at the end of the season?.

[Russell Lampron]

Kevin,

When your RO is done concentrating close the feed valve from your storage tank and open the feed valve from your filtrate tank. Restart the RO and run it just like when you were concentrating for 3 to 5 minutes or until you don't have any more sugar coming out of your concentrate line. This will flush the sugar out of the membrane(s) and get it ready for cleaning. This won't dilute the concentrate in your feed tank enough to make a difference and you won't be wasting any sugar.

I don't have one of those valve panels, I have a plumbers nightmare of tubes pipes and valves everywhere. Some day when I have the time and money I plan to straighten it out though.

Russ

[maplwrks]

Thanks for saving me all that typing Russell!! That is exactly the way I do it. As for the control panel, I made my own manifold to direct my permeate and concentrate to my desired tanks. It took 8 ball valves and many pvc t's and el's and a lot of head scratching but it came out pretty good.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I was going to do the Farmers plumbing my self/but decided for like $40+ more i could have all the 3-way valves on the panel W/labeled whats what- Thinking the way Russ just said it=I will do the same principal with 1 less step(No Bucket) and what's a little extra water in the concentrate tank anyways?=Nothing. I'll just run say 10-20 gallons of filtrate to the concentrate tank instead of into (4) 5 Gal buckets....

Keep it on 2 wheels- Took my last Bicycle ride today :lol: They even had the roads sanded for me in some spots. Russ that would be a nice 250 Mi ride out to Verona Jan 6th. on the bike if it was nice enough to take it???

[Russell Lampron]

Kevin

I have parked the bike for the winter, I don't want to get road salt all over it. I got it on 8/6/06 and managed to put 3051 miles on it before putting it away.

Russ

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Are they making the wash tanks different sizes now?? Mine is like 15 or 16" dia. and 36L"? container says 1/2 per tank/But matt Williams says 1 tablespoon too a tank and i'm looking for a Ph of 11 to 11.5. What is your recipe? I read the owners manual once this spring but don't recal if it said anything? What about the Acid?? Guess the preservative is for the end of the season?

Figuring i gotta get the manual out again and put the nose to the grindstone one more time...

[802maple]

The recipe for the cleaner to get you to 11 ph can be different, We had 2 different sugarbushes and one took about a tablespoon and the other took about 4 to get it to the right ph. It depends on what the ph of the sap is to begin with we have found.
The presevative is for the off season.

[gearpump]

I added some new pictures in my yahoo album of what I did for the piping network of the RO. It's all the way on the bottom of the sugarhouse album. I can't imagine hooking that up without the valve manifold Lapierre provides. The other thing I did is have three 3/4" couplings welded to to tank so I could have a cover on the tank. I don't know why they can't manufacture these things already on there. Teaspoons for the cleaner sounds a lot better then adding half the container like I was doing. This is why I am adding a cover because the fumes in that small room where getting a little strong. I also got a digital ph meter to get the right mix.

Marty

[Russell Lampron]

Marty,

How expensive was the ph meter and where did you get it? I never tested mine before but it sounds like a good way to save on the RO soap. I only used about 1/2 a cup because I only have one 4" membrane and figured Lapierres instructions were for the larger RO's.

Russ

[gearpump]

I got my phmeter thru forestry suppliers. Its the phtestr 2 model with ATC. I used it already to get the corrosive additive fot the outdoor furnace to the right number. Its real simple to use. I think I got it for $70.00. I also think the paper strips would fine. They are a lot cheaper. I believe the amount of soap that Lapierre recommends is for when the membrane is clogged up and dirty. I am wondering how much different the ph is from adding a half a cup to just a couple of teaspoons. I would think a ph of 7 to 10 would be fine. Have to wait and see by experimenting.

Marty

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

It's all Science!!!!

Looked at the manual today and it still say the 1/2 container for the wash- If you think about it/its like a brine tank it will only get so saturated and the more you add will only be a waste when flushed out.

Still like he says shoot for the 11-11.5 Ph to probably help keep the bacteria from growing?- The manual will tell you from like 2 to 11-12.

Keeping track of the flow rates is your indication if you need to do a rinse or wash with soap to freshen things up/ If the membrane is really bogged' down then you do an acid wash.

Russ hold on for the PH Meters i think i know where i can get some from a company that keep after me about refractometers like i ordered for $26 and now this New company wants to sell me them for $16 Ea.(Chink guy has e-mailed me like 8 times looking for my possible early order) If they sell the Ph meters i'll get a few and let you know asap on the price as i want to get a meter myself.

[Russell Lampron]

Thanks guys I watch this site and check my pm's every day and if I can get a bargain on something I always like to save the $$. :D

Russ

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

More $ for gas in your bicycles gas tank :lol: :lol:

Russ- slight glitch=Computer locked up and had to put in the recovery disc last week//lost all the favorites/ :lol: My computer module didn't though and i know what the web address is 8) Hopefull it won't come to the day too soon when i freeze up and then it's in hog heaven :)

Catch you later,

[802maple]

the reason for ph testing is that to high a ph will destroy some membranes Lappieres new instructions recommend 11 to 11.5 ph as do CDL"s instructions.The strips work just fine

[802maple]

Also if you want your membranes to last don't wait until they are bogging down to clean or rinse them. Our machines have 6 membranes and we rinse for a 1/2 hour every 4 hrs and wash every 12 hrs followed by a good rinse and we wash every day that we use the machines no matter how much the machines are used. We also concentrate our sap to 22 percent before boiling so we are rough on our membranes. When we send them to Lappiere for the end of season cleaning and inspection they have always came back with 98 percent or higher flow rate and don't pass any sugars.

[Russell Lampron]

I always wash then rince my RO after every use. My Lapierre manual is written in Frenglish and is hard to understand. That is why I like this web site, I have learned alot from what other producers are doing.

Russ

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

That is going to be my route=rinse/wash every time used or every 8 Hrs and rinse well after that. Time spent doing it a little extra will pay off in the long run for savings. Don't want to shell out $2000 for a new membrane every couple years.

I still think there instructions on an enzyme and Acid wash are overkill like the soap container says on it///Marty probably was their #1 customer for soap this past season?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Marty- Slow Joe computer won't let me look at your pictures so=This is what i have figured out with the control panel after studying it for 10 minutes.

The 2 nipples in the top right corner are your in's from your flow meters.

The nipples straight off the top are going to your appropriate tanks.

The bottom 2 nipples from the concentrate side are as follows the left side goes to your drain for complete dispersal of liquid and the right nipple goes to your wash tank for a complete circulation cycle.

The bottom 2 nipples from the filtrate are as follows the left goes to the drain and the right goes to the wash tank.

Of course now you have to have all your valves on the control panel pointing in the right direction-To do a short rinse to clear the system of sugars just leave the top control valves on the panel straight up and down in the concentration mode run the machine for 10 minutes and shut off.

Matt Williams tells me that the 4 bottom nipples all go to the wash tank/BUt if it's that way your wash tank would overflow onto the floor unless you piped up something from 1 of the bottom openings on the wash tank and elbowed it up near the top of the wash tank and then elbowed it out to a drain system somewhere.