A few getting started questions...

[Newbie_SyrupMaker]

Hi guys.

A few questions from a newbie. Made my first batch last year; 10 taps, and boiled all off ont he stove in the house...not going to do that again...

Anyway, this year is coming fast and I want a better setup. Originally looked at the Leader 1/2 pint but decided I would outgrow it way to fast...so I started looking at 2x6 size evaporators. A new one from Leader would cost ballpark $3K. I'd rather buy used, and have found one close to me that is 2x8 Grimm Lightning with a steam hood/preheater setup. Age is unknown but has been used for many years up until last when it was retired in favor of a bigger model.

My questions: a jump up to a 2x8 with a steam hood/preheater seems like quite a leap...I was only planning on doing 100 taps this year, and moving up to around 250 next year and then maybe max out around 500 a few years later as my skills and setup improve. I think a 2x8 is still plenty big for 500 taps...but is it too big for 100? Might I run into problems having too little sap in such a big setup?

Another question. The arch I am looking at was had the firebricks removed (in order to move it). Can I just lay the firebricks in the first year and not cement them in? Where I would use it this year is not where it is going to live permanetly, and I won't be able to move it once it is bricked/cemented in...

ANother question: the smokestack needs a 13inch chimney...orginally when I was planning on getting just a little 1/2 Pint machine I was going to set it into my outbuilding and use the existing 6 inch wood stove chimney...I don't have a proper sugar house setup yet. Is it inconcievable to hook up a 13inch stach to a 6 inch chimney with a reducer of some sort just for one season..one season with a small number of taps? Would it not work, or be dangerous? or would it just take longer? My plan is to build a sugar house this summer for next year; but I'd hate to miss the system, especially if I shell out the dough for an evaporator and then can't even use it this year...

Thanks all. I'll probably have more questions.

[mapleman3]

1st, let us welcome you to the addicting mapletrader. I had a half pint last year on 90 taps, this year went to a 2x6 on 300+ so I know the feeling of growing.
as for 100 taps on a 2x8. you could do it if you saved up sap(cooled) for a few days get about 200 gals to have a good boil worth while
but sap quality is a factor, you don't want to go too long with storage and have it spoil. I have done 2 days before and still made good light syrup.

fire bricks help insulate the arch and protect it, if you have gaps in the fire brick you will get hot spots on your arch walls , if your real good at placing them in you may not have a problem, how far would you have to move it next??? I moved my 2x6 fully bricked out of my sugarhouse on a borrowed pallet truck(not forklift) and pulled it out and back in after construction.you could mortor them in and get help later to move it.

as for the smoke stack... one word... NO, thats choking it down way too much, when a evap is cranking you need the draft up the stack to get more air into the firebox, or you won't get a good fire to boil, also you may smoke yourself out for sure, it's like putting a damper on a wood stove, close it too much and the fire goes out and smolders and smokes alot. cut the hole bigger and worry about patching it up later in the summer.

these are just my thoughts there are alot of great guys here that know more with more experience than me... you have come to the right place for sure :)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Newbie,

Since you already have the 6" flue in place, why not get a good used or even new half pint and then sell it after the season is over. You could sell it for as much as you paid for it if it is used and nearly as much as you paid for it if you bought it new.

It is too close to season to try to do all the things you are talking about and it will cause you more headache than if you didn't boil at all.

100 taps is not nearly enough for a 2x8 since that is what I have. If you would buy a half pint and then sell it after the season and get your money back, you could be saving money in the next few months for a larger evaporator such as a 2x6 or a 2x8.

Besides, a half pint is a large step up from a kitchen stove and will teach you a lot about how an evaporator runs. It would be a very huge leap to go from a kitchen stove to a 2x8 and I am afraid you sugar season would be miserable because you have way too much to do in a short period of time.

[Newbie_Syrupmaker]

Thanks for the timely advice guys...I think WestVirginia is probably right, that jumping from a stove, to a 2x8, is too much of a jump to try and do in the short time remaining. Not only would I need to learn how to use this equipment (lots of valves, floaters, pipes etc), I wouldn't have enough sap to really get it going (at least this year) so I'd probably be a situation where the firebricks were just sitting in there, not cemented, the chimney would either be too small or jerry-rigged somehow to work this year, the equipment may or may not operate right the first time, and since it takes so much sap at a time, I'd probably ruin the first few runs not knowing what I was doing...man, what was I thinking!

I am liking the idea of getting a much smaller unit this year if I can still find one, and then work on getting a newer/bigger setup for next year when its not such a panic..much better idea. Its funny how you get sucked into these decision a little at a time...I started out looking at the 1/2 Pint Leader evaporator...I realize its probably too small so I look at the 2x4's...the people I talk to say if you gonna get a 2x4 you might as well go 2x6 since the cost is not much more...then since I am looking at almost 3K for a new 2x6 I find a used 2x8 for around $2k....and all of a sudden I am looking at a jump from an indoor stove with a 6 quart saucepan to a huge evaporator capable of running 600 taps.....yikes. Not matter what I get this year, even a small 1/2 pint evaporator, its going to be better than the stove top.

Heres another few questions if ya'll don't mind.

What is the average selling price per gallon you guys count on? how about product mix? pints versus quarts versus gallons etc? Also, any opinions on the most amount of taps I could run on a small 1/2 pint evaporator this year? I know they are rated 15-50...but could I push it closer to 100? Would I be looking at boiling all day everyday for weeks on end?

[Al]

I'm also new at this and did upgrade to an evaporator this year. I started out with stock pots the first year, made a barrel evaporator last year. Built my sugar house this year,10x14 wasn't going to buy a new evaporator this year but came up on a good deal on a Algiers Thrifty model evaporator. It's 24 x 66 and is good for around 100-125 taps which is just about the size of my sugar woods. It's rated for 25 gallons an hour and when I purchased it it was under 2 grand. I have to purchase a rear float for it then it will be complete unit. Looks like a big rig has most of the bells and whistles. :D
Can't wait to fire it up!!!!!!! :D
Like you say no matter what it's better then a stove top.!!!! :D

[mapleman3]

Thats a wise choice, and besides, if you have the tome you still could make 20 - 25 gals on a half pint. if you can hook up a small blower to it if you find one, that way you can crank it up to boil almost 9-10 gals /hr with good dry wood. Good Luck hope you get something to boil with... have lots of fun with it too.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Newbie,

Jim(mapleman3) used a half pint last year and had around 100 taps and made nearly 20 gallon with it.

As far as price, I sell my quarts for $ 10 and the pints for $ 6, but I think that is below the normal price.

[syrupmaker]

Newbie....... We sell ours for $38/Gal mostly in qrts and pints,but have a small craft store that sells alot of 1/2 pints for us also.If your hopeing this to be a get rich quick buisiness good luck.

If you have or can get a stainless pan made up you could build your arch out of cinder blocks,line it with some fire brick and boil away.

Rick



Homemade arch
Stainless flat pans
Stihl chain saw
Rigged De Laval vac pump
and releaser
and some other dumb idea's
(with a vision)

[DougM]

Newbie,
I've only been doing this 5 years, but something you have to take into account on the size of your rig is your time available. I would agree with everyone that it's too late now to get everything done you talked about in your first post. But, I would disagree that 100 taps is too small for a 2x8.
We have 100 taps with plastic bags, and run a 2.5x10 evaporator. It's old, so it's not that efficient, but we can do about 50 gph.
The big evaporator works great for us because of our location and schedules. Our sugarbush is about 30 min. from my house. My partner works away from home, so he collects most days when he gets home around 3:30. It takes about 2 hours on average. I take Wednesdays off during sugaring season to boil, and we also boil on Saturdays.
We have 2-125 gal. poly tanks, plus 2-95 gal. tanks on the John Deere Gator we use to collect.
With our boiling schedule, and keeping the tanks covered to keep the sap cool we are able to make nice light syrup. If you work away from home and are limited on your time as we are I would not rule out the 2x8.
My 2 or 3 cents worth...

[powerdub]

Here is my two cents. I would hook up that 2X8 to the existing stove pipe. It may be small and will not give you a great draft but you are only talking about 100 taps. Word of cuation here is that you will be getting the stack red hot so you need to have the adequate room around it. You will be able to get by this year. I would also lay the bricks in but I would put a little refractory cement in too. It won't cost you that much more time and it comes off pretty easy when you want to redo it. I would take the opportunity to learn how to run that rig when I have a hundred taps on it as opposed to 500 or more. Less pressure that way, then you will be race ready when it comes to boiling the "big run" :wink: The last thing I would do in you case is get the 100 taps out and then a couple weeks into the season when you are comfy with things throw some more out, who knows by the end you could have your 250 out this year. Good luck on whatever route you choose and have fun.

[Newbie_Syrupmaker]

Thanks guys for all the help. I finally decided that this year, smaller was better, and better to boil small than not at all...I went ahead and ordered a Leader 1/2 pint to use on my existing chimney. Should be here Friday or Saturday. Its brand new, and I hate to buy things like this new, but I hope I can trade it in or resell it for not a big loss when I "trade-up" to a bigger rig next year or the one after that.

I am going to go ahead and put 100 taps in this year. I am home full-time (semi-retired) so I can boil everyday if I need to. I guess worst case is end up dumping some sap I couldn't get to.

Here are a few more questions in terms of workflow for all you experienced folks.
'
Like I said, I am going to put in 100 taps this year. I am going to pickup 3- 55 gallon food grade buckets to store/transport the sap from trees to evaporator (on my tractor). Will three be enough if I boil everyday?

How long can I leave the sap in the 55 gal pails before I boil before it goes bad? I would probably just leave them out in the snow bank to keep them cold.

The dealer suggested that best way to use the evaporator is to boil about 90% of the water away and then take it into the stove to finish it? This sounds reasonable to me..easier to control the temp and its a cleaner environent...good idea?

I am planning on drawing off the sap into used (clean) 1 gallon spring water containers to save them until I can "finish" them inside? How long can I keep them semi "finished" in 1 galln plastic jugs? Can I want until all the real boiling is done outside and then in a few weeks finish everything? or does it need to be done right away?

After I finish the sap inside, I was also planning on using a temporary container until I decide on what bottles to finally package the stuff. If I end up with about 15 gallons of syrup, can I leave the finish containers in the 1 gallon spring water containers until I get around to bottling? Would I need to re-heat the syrup for the final packaging?

Last question...what is the most economical bottle/package choice and what is the best website to order from? Some of this I will sell to friends and family so packaging is not very important, but I also run a small farmstand where I plan to sell some too so I'd like some nice containers too....

Thanks again! :D

[DougM]

One additional tip about bottling, from Dr. Randy Heilegmann at OSU: After you fill the container and put the lid on, turn it upside down for a minimum 30 seconds. This will bathe the upper part of the container in the 180+ deg. syrup, and kill any bacteria that might be in the condensation that somethimes forms. According to him, bacteria in that condensation is the main source of mold in syrup.
Another good info source if you don't have a hard copy is the North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual (http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/ ). The whole thing is online, and the table of contents is linked, pretty handy.
And, when you get set up, make sure you send pictures to Jim (mapleman3: info@desjardinsmaple.com) to include on his awesome website.
Happy Sugaring,
Doug

[gwcutter10]

word of caution... You can't draw off hot syrup into plastic jugs.. I use a 4 cup pyrex measuring cup and strain into stainless steel pot...

[Middleton Maples]

word of caution... You can't draw off hot syrup into plastic jugs.. I use a 4 cup pyrex measuring cup and strain into stainless steel pot...
I always draw my syrup in plastic jugs for the past 20 years and never had a problem, but did make the switch to stainless pails this year since I upgraded my evaporator.