smoky lake hybrid draw off question?

[bowtie]

i have boiled about 160 gallons down and was wondering how do draw off from the drop flues ? I use up all my sap, didn't want it freeze in tank, and I am now left with all 8 drop flues full of sap/syrup ? short of tipping the pan practically upside down how would finish drawing it off ? not a big deal right now as the season is just getting started but at the end the year or when I need to clean pan what would be least messy way?
not totally impressed with pan, boils great at front of flues and decent in back section of "syrup pan" but front section of syrup pan boils slow. I have been using some "wet" wood and have not boiled it at 3/4" deep but I can not think I can get the mid 20's gph I was told I would get. I run a copper coil around my stack and into preheater pan and sap enters around 75-90 degrees and run my blower as high I as can without boiling over. one other thing bothers me about pan is that it should come with a cover to close off flue area from front area, when you shut down for the night you lose all the gradient built up into the lower flue section. I know you should have the evap slightly "downhill" but still think a cover would handy. not a big deal in a flat pan but seems under thought in this pan.
290 taps in and have collected 3 times for a total of about 160 gallons, hope it opens up a little soon!!

[markct]

You would be amazed what a dif even slightly damp wood makes as opposed to perfectly dry wood, I couldn't get my 2x8 arch with forced draft to boil well and started taking wood from the other stack that had been undercover longer and it came right up to normal, was lucky to get 30 gph til I switched wood piles and got the usual 45 to 50gph. And im not talking visibly wet wood, just a lil more moisture than ideal

[Sugarmaker]

Evaporator should be level, wood should be dry, and you can siphon the sap from the flues if you need to. Sounds like your making syrup. Great!
have fun,
Regards,
Chris

[Pibster]

I have the same pan. Still waiting for my first boil with sap. I was planning to slide a small piece of stainless steel over the hole between the two sections at the end of each boil. I think that should help maintain the gradient for the next boil.
I think your pan should be completely level. I probably won't drain my pan until the end of the season.

[DoubleBrookMaple]

I am now left with all 8 drop flues full of sap/syrup ? short of tipping the pan practically upside down how would finish drawing it off ? not a big deal right now as the season is just getting started but at the end the year or when I need to clean pan what would be least messy way?

When I did my test boil with water on mine, I had the same thoughts, and just pumped it out with my sugarhouse sap handling pump. I can pump right back into my head tank from a hose connection.
Any pump should work. I am a small operation with 150 taps, so this "L'il Giant" works quite well. I shopped around, and got mine at PexSupply.com for $105 with shipping. Atkinson Maple sells the same one for $116 plus shipping.
http://atkinsonmaple.com/catalogue/equipment/pumps
http://www.pexsupply.com/Little-Giant-555502-360-Non-Submersible-Utility-Transfer-Pump-115V-1-10HP-6-cord

91659166

[DaveB]

I'm surprised that your drop flues don't have a valve to drain them. Seems like an oversight to me but like Eric suggested you can use a small pump to remove anything.

I use wood that has been drying for at least three seasons I know that seems like a long time but I've just noticed a huge difference in using super dry wood that is split small so that it burns hotter. I also notice a difference with a "smaller" fire using about 5-6 logs at a time once things are going. I used to have the firebox loaded to get what I thought was as much flame as I could under the pans but as time went on I learned that the having fewer logs actually created a faster boil.

[buckeye gold]

I am running the full pint Smokey Lake pan which is similar if not the same. I have to say that I agree I could be more impressed and the claims of 20GPH seem a stretch to me for most operators. I am finishing my season and have these observations. A gate between the flue pan and syrup sections would be nice, but the gradient re-establishes with a good boil if you push a little extra sap into the flue pan. I do this by holding down the float after a full boil is established. It doesn't take a lot. Loading and wood quality is a huge factor with the small arches. I had to modify my AOF nozzles so one directed air right under the front section. You need to load heavy to the front and just push coals back and don't over load. It takes a long extended boil to make syrup in the front section. You will actually get syrup in the first section off the flue pan before the front. I set a digital thermometer in that channel and draw when it hits around 217. I then finish on propane, which I prefer anyway. It would be nice to have a drain in the flues. You have three options, siphon, pump or tilt. A siphon with small flex tubing works well. It's not a lot of sap after you've drained the pan. As for the boil rate claims, I think they are over stated. I have tweaked and tweaked and average 13-15 GPH from start to finish, but at full on continuous boil I've got as high as 17 GPH. I think that is all she will do. I do need to add some air to my left side of the firebox to keep a better boil there, but that may get me a couple gallon GPH at best. If I was changing the design I think I would only have one front section instead of two and make the one slightly smaller. I'm not sure that is possible as i would not want the flues any farther forward in the firebox.

At the end of the day I am happy with the pan. Did I expect more, yes, but it is a far better system than the old flat continuous flow pan that came with the half pint. I can make more syrup in less time, so that is good money spent. It does need some tweaking as most new products do when put into real world operations. If I had a criticism it would be the claims I heard of this pan's efficiency was not obtainable for me and make me wonder if they are doable at all. Also, I'm not sure that fixing the boil in the front sections is an easy fix with a standard half pint arch without modifying the firebox. If anyone has figured it out let us know.

[maplefarmer]

as for draining drop flue pans, I use a small 12 volt pump, I think I got at harbor freight,[set a car battery beside arch] it has garden hose fittings, get a short garden hose and cut in half, screw the end on the suction side of pump and stick that end with no connector on it down in between your flues, screw other piece of hose on discharge side of pump and put in bucket, or anywhere you wish to pump out flues to. works great.

[Josh Nickles]

I'm surprised that your drop flues don't have a valve to drain them. Seems like an oversight to me

Smoky Lake puts flue drains on all of the regular drop flue pans like the one I have, but don't forget the hybrid pans they build are hobby pans built with the consumer's budget in mind. A neighbor has one, he loves it!

As for optimizing the boil, I say smaller wood loaded more often.

[sg5054]

My 2x3 doesn't have flues drains. I just use a small small 12 water system pump. It works well. I would like to be able to block off the sections I emailed smokey lake asking if they had anything to do that and never got a reply.

[Josh Nickles]

If you don't see anything for sale for this, it probably doesn't exist. If he had something available for this then he would have offered it. I know there are tapered plugs available in the hardware store for a few dollars each, but I am not sure of their food grade status. Why don't you just drawoff the sweet at the end of the day and add it to the front compartment like you would do with a normal evaporator? I am sure if you try calling him a few times you will be able to reach him, remember what time of the year it is, these manufacturers are not sitting around like all of us.

[johnzski]

Email is your friend with Jim this time of year ! I've had a few questions and Angela has always gotten back right away . Good people , VERY busy . Looking forward to doing business with them for a long time to come

[Big_Eddy]

If I feel I need to drain my flue pan, I siphon out my flues on my home built unit. I have a 3' section of 1/2" hose. Stick it in the first flue, suck up some sap (or pre-fill with cool sap which is what I do now AFTER I removed most of my taste buds) to start the siphon, drain into a sap bucket. Pop my thumb over the end, into the next flue. I can drain 6 flues in a few minutes. I let the concentrate freeze in the sap pails and then pour it back into the flue pan for the next boil.

I only drain when I expect a hard freeze. The concentrate won't freeze if it's just a few degrees below.

For plugs, try whittling a chunk of maple to fit - it's syrup safe.

[johnallin]

For plugs, try whittling a chunk of maple to fit - it's syrup safe.

That's one of the best ones I've read on this site, and it's absolutely correct.

[bandirector]

I leave a bucket under the spout and lift from the back end to move the syrup up and out of the flues. It's a heave but by doing it in stages I can empty out the majority of the concentrate in the flues. Mine is a 2x6.

[Jbablak]

I got an email from Jim answering my question about stopping the flow between the sections after a boil, and he said plugs can be used, just be very careful and remove them before startup. A plug that is tapered from 1.25" to 1.5" would work best. I purchased a few plugs from this site - food safe silicone rubber plugs:

http://www.widgetco.com/7-white-silicone-rubber-stoppers

I tested them and they fit nicely into the holes in the front sections, but have not used them to maintain a sugar gradient yet.