Evaporator Spigot Suggestion

[pyro]

Hi, I am a first year weekend hobbyist here. I just tapped 10 trees and have read enough that I'm going to just skip that 1st year where you boil off a propane tank. I'm having a 24"x36" pan made from 14 guage stainless. I know this is thick and will take longer to start to boil, but once it gets up to temperature I believe it should be the same as thinner material. The pan will be one continuous pan, no partitions.

I'm going to place it on top of cement blocks. This needs to be a temporary weekend setup.

I would like install some sort of drain spigot. My current idea is to buy a 1/2" NPT nipple and weld it onto the bottom corner of the pan. Then install a stainless 1/2" ball valve to the nipple. I'm looking for some advice on this idea. Any downsides to this, any better ideas?

Thanks

[Big_Eddy]

Your challenge with a 2x3 pan and 10 trees is going to be sap volume. A 2x3 pan needs about 70 gals of sap to be able to boil it down to syrup in the pan. Any less than that and you will be finishing for a long time on the stove or propane.

What I did with mine was wait until I was down to 3/8" in the pan then rotated it 45 degrees and poured out the corner

If you intend to put a spigot in you want it as low as possible. Add a little box in your corner that extends past the blocks of your arch and put the pipe out the bottom. Otherwise you are not going to be able to drain your pan.

Even still, with only 10 trees you will rarely have enough finished syrup that you can drain it out a spigot. 70 gals boils down to 3/8" mentioned above before it is syrup.

[Ausable]

You will probably get several suggestions as what to use and where to put it. I would go with a 3/4 attached to a lower side - rather than the bottom. Sounds like You are going with a large open pan with no dividers and that's ok - that would be a batch pan or batch boiling. A series of dividers with small openings at opposite ends - which would cause a serpentine flow through the pan (s) would be a continuous flow. --Mike--

[pyro]

I do plan on finishing on propane. But hopefully it will really be finishing and not eating up tons of propane.

I plan to use the spigot along with tilting the pan up to get the last bits. Not sure how this is really going to work in reality when sap is boiling and a roaring fire is underneath.

I have 5 gallon buckets on each tree, and hope to fill them in a week and a half. Maybe that's too optimistic. I may tap an additional 5 trees. The next week and a half should have no problems storing the sap naturally.

I can make the pan smaller as well. Should I decrease the width or length dimension?

[Timberwolf]

Pyro, unless you freeze your sap you will not want to store it that long. If you do it will spoil from bacteria or at a minimum bacteria will reduce your sugar content.

200 Bags
2x6 AUF

[bushmoose]

I plan to use the spigot along with tilting the pan up to get the last bits. Not sure how this is really going to work in reality when sap is boiling and a roaring fire is underneath.



Since you are going to be batch boiling and not actually finishing in your pan, my best advice is to take the pan off the arch completely when it's down to the level you want. Set up some blocks (you said that's what your using?) alongside the arch and when ready, throw your fire down and slide the pan off very carefully without slopping it. You can then drain the pan into your bucket, pail or pot to start the finishing.

[eustis22]

"I plan to use the spigot along with tilting the pan up to get the last bits. Not sure how this is really going to work in reality when sap is boiling and a roaring fire is underneath."

It's not. You are going to burn your pan. Let your fire die down to almost nothing before attempting to remove your pan or the syrup. It is a lot cheaper to do more finishing than it is to get a new pan. And a 2X3 pan with an inch of syrup weighs a LOT. Tap 5 more trees and leave a little in the pan before the next boil.

[lpakiz]

I boiled for several years on a 2X3 and didn't have a drain. As stated earlier, I also finished right in the pan, very carefully, and with a very small fire, usually pine kindling. When it was syrup, I slid the pan off the arch onto two pipes about 20 inches apart, and well secured. Rotate the pan 45 degrees and lift the inside corner. Syrup will pour out the opposite corner into a stock pot set on the ground. As you tilt higher, the pouring corner gets lower. If possible, practice this a few times with cold water, to see where to put the pot.
You will not be able to drain the pan on the fire, because as you get empty, the pan will scorch. Also, my minimum sap amount was 90 gallons, which ended up to be about 3/4 -1 inch in the pan, and then the pan must be very well leveled.
The last few points on the hydrometer come really fast, so watch carefully and be ready.

[pyro]

I don't think an inch of syrup is going to compare much to the weight of 14 ga pan! Lol. The other idea with the spigot is that I can maybe filter it easier. Again this is all theoretical until I get into reality and realize my ideas will never work. :o.

So you convinced me 2x3 Is too big. I'll reduce by 33%. Am I better off doing a 24"x24" (square) or 18"x32" (long and skinny). I'm asking which one would work better with a cement block frame?

I should mention that I have more taps and trees, but I'm hoping to not tap too many this year until I can pick up some free buckets around. I've bought enough buckets this year. Maybe next year...

[optionguru]

Have you gone to the local bakery or dunkin donuts. They will usually give or sell you 3 to 5 gallon buckets for $1 a piece. If you're like most of us you will want to grow more each year so you may want to stick with the larger pan and do a few more taps, then next year when you go to 30 taps you will be all set.

[rayi]

I boiled like this for years. The key is to have a way to remove the pan from the heat. I set up some angle iron on blocks. Look at the GMB site(I think) it has small evaporators that have a set up on the side to slie the pan. When you drain be ready to put water in as soon as it is empty to prevent burn. Also my pan had two big handles on two sides so it was easy to slide. Spigot off the side works better so the whole pan sets over the fire

[lpakiz]

I wouldn't down size. Just boil whatever sap you get down to about an inch or more. Let the fire go out, cover and walk away. Boil when you get more sap, to a total of 90 gallons, up to 150 gallons. Then stop adding sap and finish down to syrup.
Like others say, next year, you will want a bigger pan.....

[eustis22]

>So you convinced me 2x3 Is too big. I'll reduce by 33%.

You talk crazy. in a year or two 2X3 isn't gonna be big ENOUGH. Listen to ipakiz.

[Sugarmaker]

NO! I would not reduce the size of the pan! Every one complains about not having enough area. Go read to posts! You may add another 10 trees, Do you have 10 taps or 10 trees? Anyway the draw off in the corner and pan tilting will work Just be careful, We dont want you to get burnt. 3/4 inch should work good for that I like the side of the pan and as close to the bottom as possible. use a half coupling and get it TIG-ed on to the pan, then come out with a stainless nipple , then your 1/4 turn valve with a street ell and a short nipple down.
My 2 cents.
By the way I skipped the propane step also.
Regards,
Chris

[eustis22]

Put fittings on on opposite corners, too. You will want to turn your pan to lessen the niter build up at the draw off. You might also consider an opening for a digital thermometer probe which, while not relying completely on for syrup determination, would let you know when you were getting close enough to hydrometer.

[Big_Eddy]

Stick with 2x3 - you will tap more trees. I'd bet a gallon of syrup on that.

Here's how I boiled on my block arch.

Know how much sap you put in. Seems easy, but you need to keep track. I used to wait for 60gals (CDN i.e. 75US) before I would start, and usually more like 70. With my sugar concentration, that would yield 7l of syrup which is ~1/2" in a 2'x3' pan.
Boil at 2"-3" deep until all sap is in (10 hours!), then let the fire die down to coals. By the time the fire dies down the pan will be down to ~1". To finish the syrup, I would toss handfulls of small wood in allowing it to flare up then burn down quickly until I was down to where I wanted to be. (I knew by watching when to stop - I like to take off a little dense) This is the high risk stage, and not recommended until you have several batches under your belt.
As soon as you hit the density you want, cool the fire with a shovel full of snow (early season) or a short mist with the hose. Some people throw a piece of sheet metal over the coals.
Rotate the pan 45 degrees on top of the blocks, and lift the far corner, pouring into a 20l stock pot set beside the arch.
As soon as the syrup was in the pot, either lift the pan right off, or center it back on the arch and refill with sap.
Finish on propane, boiling further or adding sap to thin.


I did not filter until after final finishing. I would skim anything out of the pan while boiling and kept the raw sap clean. Too much going on at once to try to filter between the fire and the stock pot.


Note: Early years, I would take off at the 1" depth and reduce the last 50% on propane. Later years I would take it all the way on the fire. I did make a few sacrifices to the maple gods over the years.

[pyro]

Ok, you convinced me to keep the 2x3". I assume you can always put a partition in it and make it smaller (boiling water on the other side). I wasn't intending to keep condensed syrup in the pan, but that's probably a better option.

My main goal was to not spend too much time with the fire. I don't want to do all day burns (despite my handle).

I guess I never thought about how shallow the syrup would be after you boil off 98% of it. If I boil down to 1", that would leave 3.75 gallons that I have to finish off on propane - not terrible, but not great. Hopefully I can make it a bit less than 1", but we'll see.

For reference I have a one acre property with about 10 small 12-15" maples. My mother in law has 2 acres with town woods that I can maybe creep into a bit. They easily have 20 medium size trees there, but would rather not transport to much sap. I do have a pickup.

Is 1/2" coupler/spigot too small? Cheaper and easier to find. I know someone recomended 3/4".

[Big_Eddy]

I'd go 3/4". Reason being you are going to be lifting the other side of the pan with that syrup in it waiting for it all to flow out. And all the while the upper part of your pan is getting hotter and stickier from the residual heat. Bigger is better here. Get it open, get it out, get it off the heat.

[bushmoose]

9044

This is a pic I got from somewhere? maybe off this site, I'm not sure? At any rate, it shows what you should have to slide your pan off the fire, be it blocks or otherwise. As I mentioned in my previous post, be careful not to slop the syrup as you slide the pan off. Gently would be the key word here.

[pyro]

Well the taps started dripping today and I think I'll have my goal of 35 gallons next weekend. The shop has been busy and hasn't started the pan.

Now I'm second guessing the 14 gauge thickness. I'm wondering how bad the inefficiency is going to be being that it is super thick (> 1/8"). I would have preferred something like 18 gauge. I would have to order the metal and it won't be ready by next weekend.

My alternative is to buy 3 steam table pans that many others have used. Main concern with these is the burning of the sides since the fire can get on the sides of the pans. Overall price is roughly the same in this condition since I plan to pay the welder.

So which is the better option?
A. 14 ga 24"x36"x6" pan = 3 cu ft = 22.5 gallon
B. 3x 23 ga steam table spillage pans = 2.25 cu ft = 16.9 gallon

[bushmoose]

Get a pan made of mild steel. It's done all the time and makes the same syrup as a stainless. Everyone seems to go all goo goo eyed over stainless but it's not necessary, especially at your stage of the game. My 2x3 mild pan was made about 10 yrs ago and it's still going strong. It hangs on some nails at the back of the shed under the eave during the off season and there is absolutely no rust issues what so ever. Just leave the soot on the outside and a coating of sugar from boiling on the inside. It'll be fine.

[pyro]

Regular steel doesn't really help me here since in my case, the cost will be no different. I can get the stainless as scrap.