economics of equipment

[theguywiththename]

Just curious, how many taps would you need to make it worthwhile purchasing a filter press? A vacuum system?

[Ausable]

Curious Question - So I had to reply. I am a Hobby Producer and give my product away - so naturally - I try and keep my cost down as I have no intention of ever going commercial and selling maple syrup. Reading Your history in maple syrup making You have had 18 taps for several years. My question would be - do You plan a large expansion and going commercial or just curious? Many of us make rig things up to make the job easier or buy used stuff. As You know by checking the prices of the maple syrup equipment makers - A Filter Press can be expensive and I wouldn't buy one unless I sold a lot of maple syrup - as You have to pay for the thing with your profits. Some guys make them up. Same with a vacuum system - many use old dairy vacuum pumps or rig up a vacuum system. With my 55+ taps - I just use drop tubes to 5 gallon plastic buckets and lids. But - If You have the money and more trees to tap why not experiment - always fun. I see You now have a continuous flow pan - that will add to the adventure. Hey! Hope You have a good year. ---Mike---

[red maples]

Well it all comes down to what you want to spend. DO you want to sell your product? would you eventually want to be big enough to try to make a profit?

Those are things that you will need to take into account before you dive in.

If you are the handy type then you can do things a lot cheaper if you shop around and look for deals look into old dairy farms for pumps and releasers. Although its very expensive even though it says for hobby applications there is a lot of smaller back yard hobby stuff out there although I am not sure who is gonna really spend $700 for a little filter press doesn't make sense to me. but to each his own.

then you do like the rest of us spend every cent you have and hope you have a good season to pay some back!!!

[theguywiththename]

More or less just curious in a comarcial operation does it become reasonable for such items? Wish I had enough trees for comarcial operation but unless I me raucously find a few thousand trees, it won't be happening.

[DaveB]

When I first started about 25 years ago I just bought/used the equipment that I need to produce syrup for family and friends. Nothing fancy but I also looked for convenience to do the job easier. Somewhere about 10 years I wanted to use the hobby and the work that I enjoyed and try make more of a living off of it. That changed the equipment that I use and when I would look to buy something, I would buy something with an eye toward something that would last 10 years or more and be helpful towards my goal.

That being said, the answer really depends on your goals. In terms of a filter press, unless you need to filter more than a few gallons of syrup at time or need something to move syrup around, I think it becomes more of a hassle to setup than using other methods. As for vacuum, there are some very economical solutions with diaphragm pumps that could pay off with under 50 taps. There seems to be a number of solutions with other equipment as well. I would just focus on what moves you toward your goal.

[village idiot]

I think it comes down to what your time/other equipment is scaled for. What I mean is if you have the ability to evaporate more sap than you currently have, it makes some sense to add vacuum and get more sap (often this is a lot easier than adding more taps). If you have more syrup than you can filter easily, it may make sense to get a better way to filter it (either more cones, a flat holder, or a filter press). All of these things are just a continuum of time ($) vs effort ($). I don't think you hit the "need" for vac or a press at a certain # of taps.

[maple flats]

Vacuum is dependent on the size of your operation. With Conventional vacuum it might take 2-3 seasons to pay back on 500 taps, but on 6000 taps it only might take 1/3 of a season.
Using a small diaphragm pump it might pay back in a year, maybe less at 100-200 taps. Not likely to ever pay back at 18 taps. By pay back, I mean the cost is earned back in the gained syrup from adding the vacuum. If you give the syrup away, there will never be a payback.

[theguywiththename]

Could you describe such system for 50 taps? Looking at some maples in our winter access by snowmobile bush. Depending on how this system sounds and if the expansion does happen, I might consider the system.

[BreezyHill]

There are multiply ways to provide vacuum to a bush. It all depends on how much you are able to spend, your power source( electric available, generator, or gas or diesel power unit), how many trees, just to start a list.

For a fifty tree you could go with:
a diaphragm pump and achieve fairly high vacuum provided you control leaks well
used dairy pump and releaser, depending on what you can find this could range from $150 to $1000. Depending on condition and size.
I have a unit that is in our museum section that was our first unit. A Surge BB2 and 1/2 gallon stainless releaser. It was purchased in the 1970 used for $50. It has been used for several seasons off and on over the years. The releaser was used on 300 taps last season at 29" of vac. I have seen similar units on ebay sell for under $250.

When you are giving away product you still need to assign a value. My niece said that best Birthday present ever was a bottle of syrup I gave her a few months back. My wife gave her $20 in the card but I had a bottle she was eying at our county fair. 250ml snowman. She still talks about it as the best present ever, better than the x box.

So what is the value of a gift...Sometimes it is priceless.

I know people that pay auto repair bills with syrup and know a person that wants to trade meat for syrup.

Personally it is better to get more from the trees you have with vacuum, and then to grow over time as your funds provide.

Figure what your boil rate is on the new rig, how many hours you can boil, and then you should have the answer as to how many trees you can handle.

I have limited hours to boil, so I have to make the most of my time...so we RO, and adding an elec pump to the filter press and threw out the prefilter cone filter. We will be packing in 15 gal drums this season rather than 5 as we ran out of room last season.

Remember one thing....bigger is not always better. Supply your demand!

Good Luck!

Ben

[theguywiththename]

Hmm interesting setup. Just planning ahead. We still haven't built the arch but if I can get more trees and under vacuum, I'll just use cinder block arch and buy a flue pan and build a proper arch

[theguywiththename]

Now with a diaphragm pump, do I need a realeser?

[Machinist67]

you would not need a releaser as the sap will go thru the pump and discharge into your tank.

[motowbrowne]

I don't think that a vacuum system for 50 taps makes any sense. That's just me, but I'd say, spend the energy on figuring out and purchasing a vacuum system on getting up to 100 taps without vacuum and buy a 2x4 or 2x6 used. That'd be a nice little setup without any messing around with vacuum pumps and checking for vacuum leaks, etc. etc.

[BreezyHill]

Diaphram pump gives you the option of pumping a short distance on the discharge from the pump.

This can get the sap to a evap tank above your system to gravity into the evap.

gravity or vacuum you still should be checking the system daily to maximize production.

50 taps on high vac and you could make 25 gallons a season...Sell in 250 ml at $13 and you pull in just under $4000 with the cost of the glass taken out.

that could easily pay for a good diaphragm pump and equipment when you amortize the expenses over a 7 year table.

That's nothing to throw away... form a hobby.

[motowbrowne]

Come on, does anyone sell their entire production of syrup in 250ml glass bottles? That's just not realistic. That's like when tomato growers think they can make tons more money growing cherry tomatoes instead of regular. Sure they pay more per bushel, but you can't only sell cherries, plus they cost more to pick. Just like the 250ml. Anyone feel like bottling 25 gallons into 380 250ml bottles with out a decent bottler?

[DaveB]

Come on, does anyone sell their entire production of syrup in 250ml glass bottles? That's just not realistic. That's like when tomato growers think they can make tons more money growing cherry tomatoes instead of regular. Sure they pay more per bushel, but you can't only sell cherries, plus they cost more to pick. Just like the 250ml. Anyone feel like bottling 25 gallons into 380 250ml bottles with out a decent bottler?

If he sold it all wholesale at $3/lb, it's still worth almost $900. That would pay for the diaphragm pump in less than a year several times over.

To me, it's a nice way for a smaller producer to add production without the need for trees or an established producer to add vacuum to an area that would otherwise be cost prohibitive. I've always loved this site because it's a reminder that where there's a will, there's a way!

[BreezyHill]

One mans dream is another mans night mare.

Actually I do sell 99% of my product in glass of 250 ml to 50ml maple leaf bottles. With our sales growth we will need to be tapping around 6-7000 to meet our demand and sales opportunity at .5 gal/tap.

I feel that any operation has the potential to sell as much of their product in glass if they take the bull by the horns to make a market.

We were up to 2000 taps selling 90 in bulk and will be around 700 selling all in glass and will need to buy another 3-400 gallons for this years sales. Next season we need to get the 2000 back on line.

[325abn]

Where do you sell?

[BreezyHill]

We do special events like weddings, company events, etc.