3/16 Gravity Line Questions

[antghunter]

Hey Guys,
Couple questions -

I read about not T'ing 3/16 because of the bottleneck its creates, i wondered if having more than 1 tap at a tree (say 2 or 3) will cause the same problem?
Also does having your 5/16 line the majority of your drop make a difference or is it recommended to have it more 3/16 line and a small 5/16 attached just for your spile. I am using 5/16 line at the beginning of my run around end tree, should i put my vacuum gauge on the 5/16 line or after i connect to my 3/16 line, obviously before my first tap? Thanks for any advice

[bowhunter]

I haven't done any 3/16 but have done a lot of research. I've read the same thing about the tee's, but not sure what other alternatives you have. You need to have as much 3/16 as you can particularly in the elevations changes and I think that would include the drops. If you have a lot of elevation drop (30 feet or more) on the laterals you may be able to leave the drops as 5/16 since you would have more elevation change than necessary to get full vacuum in the lateral. The vacuum gauge should be fine in the 5/16.

[BlueberryHill]

I have some 3/16 gravity going right now, and on my drop lines, I have about 4" of 5/16 coming off of the tap and then I reduce to 3/16 for the rest of the way down to the tee. I don't know if that is the best way or if it really matters but I will tell that you that I have had great success with it so far. My vac gauge is in the high 20's when the sap is running and I am getting much more sap-per-tap out of these taps than I am on my buckets.

I have wondered if the drop line size really matters. It would be less work and less money to just run 5/16 all the way from the tap to the tee. Then you would not need a straight reducing connector at all. You could just have a reducing tee. Hopefully there will just be a 3/16 tap available in the near future.

I wish I had more trees to experiment with!

[steve J]

I have tapped with the 3/16th for first time and I was up there to only witness one day of the sap running. my take is that multiple taps on a tree would probably be ok although I made point to just place one tap per tree. As for my drops I had about a 3 to 4 inch piece of 3/16ths off the T than the remainder is 5/16ths. Having said that I can't tell you I am right or not and my gauges never registered on any of my 6 lines even thou I have a very steep drop. But only about half my trees were giving up sap on that day as they were just unthawing. If that continues to be a problem than I screwed up some place.

[BlueberryHill]

I have a couple of trees that have multiple taps and it does not seem to matter. The tee for each tap is spaced out a couple feet on the 3/16 "mainline". One tee on each side of the larger trees. Still lots of vacuum. Nothing to compare it to, but it seems like there are no negative effects. Don't see how I could expect to get much more than 28 on the vac gauge. I probably only have a 25-30ft drop from last tap to collection drum.

Steve, I hear you on the troubleshooting. My setup is at my brothers house which is 15 mins or so away from my house so I don't get over there every day to check on it. I have 2 lines set up and one is fantastic (high 20's) and the other is giving me troubles. The best I have seen is in the 8-9 range on my 2nd line. I suspect that it is a leak somewhere but I have yet to find it. Pulled out one tap that was in an oak tree (whoops, idiot) but that did not make a difference either. The 2 lines have similar amount of taps, nearly identical slope (same hillside), same drop from last tap to collection point. Little to no setup differences. That is why I still think that it must be a leak. Does anyone know if a line with 8-9 vac in it will product enough suction to make hissing loud enough to detect? Still trying to figure out the best way to find the probable leak.

[lpakiz]

On conventional vacuum systems, the best leak indicator is how fast the sap/bubbles are moving thru the line. Is there a point where you can see a definite speed change? In a tight lateral, sap is barely crawling. Bend the lateral so it forms a dip, or "trap" like under your sink. Let it fill, then note how fast the bubbles enter and leave. Go along the lateral, doing this every so often.
Then again, the lower the vacuum level, the harder it is to find a leak. Does sap really accelerate if you pull the top tap? If so, go down a couple and see if it still accelerates when you pull a tap farther down. This might show a restriction In a fitting, such as a piece of wood chip or CV ball, plastic debris, etc.

[StayinLowTech]

I have tapped some trees with 2 taps on my 3/16 lines and the Tees don't seem to cause a problem. Don't know how else you would do it. As to the drops, I figure that the more 3/16 the better, so I have only a 6"-8" piece of 5/16 right at the spout and then a reducer to 3/16. At first I didn't leave enough 5/16 to change the spout (you lose a bit each year you cut off the spout). So from now on I am using stubbys and adapters to minimize the number of years I will have to cut off the spout. Have fun with it.

[BlueberryHill]

Thanks lpakiz, I'll check into the bubble speed. I have noticed that the bubble speed and spacing changes after each tee (drop line) but nothing drastic. On my line with great vacuum it appears to be behaving the same as the line with low vac. I have honestly not spent enough time looking at each tee though.

Whoops, guess I should have left longer 5/16 sections. Was not thinking about cutting off and replacing the taps. Think I have enough room for next year, but the year after that I'll have some extra work to do. Only about 30 taps right now so it should not be too much trouble. What a rookie!

[lpakiz]

Blueberry,
Have you ruled out a gauge malfunction? Could you (or have you) swapped the gauges? If you do, I hope the low reading gauge is the culprit, not the high reading one..... Or are you basing your suspicion on the difference of the volume of sap from the lines?

[BlueberryHill]

Good idea, I'll swap the gauges and see what happens. It does seem like the line with the high reading is putting out more sap. Maybe I'll put 2 drums to collect so I can compare that was as well instead of running them both into the same drum.

[antghunter]

Thanks guys for the replys and advice, i think i will stay 6" to 8" on 5/16 for the drops sounds about right. As for the more than 1 tap per tree, i would figure it would be ok. Another question, what do you guys think about branching one or two trees into you lines that are say 10 to 15 feet away from you line that you couldnt get to originally? Kinda like a long drop?

[CampHamp]

I read about not T'ing 3/16 because of the bottleneck its creates
I haven't heard of that before. Where did you hear that and what was the suggested alternative? I used 3/16 T's on my drops. Thanks.

[psparr]

I haven't heard of that before. Where did you hear that and what was the suggested alternative? I used 3/16 T's on my drops. Thanks.

That is refering to having two laterals coming together un the same run.