Maple tree dilema

[Ittiz]

This my first post on here. I've been doing sugaring the last couple years as a hobby. Just simple buckets on half a dozen trees or so until this year. Anyway to the point, I live in southern NH and sugaring is very popular in my area. However I looked over my property (as well as I could in the limited time I had) and never found a single sugar maple tree. I literally looked at hundreds of maple trees and not one I could confirm as a sugar maple. Many were easy to spot as red maple, it appears all the trees I tapped in the past were red maples. I know their are sugar maples in the area, Parker's Maple Barn is down the street from me. Further down there are trees on the side of the road which I've confirmed are sugar maples for sure. So it's a bit of a head scratcher.

I've come up with a few explanations. Maybe someone on here can point me the correct way.
1: I just can't spot them. My lot is mostly heavily wooded, almost all the trees are very straight single stemmed trees with no branches in the first 25 feet. The bark isn't a good indicator so the twigs and the buds are all I have to go on. It'd seem though I'd find a least a few saplings. I found red maple saplings no problem.

2: Hybrid trees. Do sugar maples and red maples hybridize? Most of the maple leaves I looked at this summer (while not particularly looking for sugar maples) have an in between shape between sugar maples and red maples. The twigs and the buds are red, however the buds are generally more pointed then the tree on my lawn, which I know for sure is a red maple.

3: I don't know my a$$ from my elbow. I'm good at spotting completely different kinds of trees, even all the different kinds of oaks that grow around here. The maples on my property all just look the same to me, maybe I just don't know the difference. Like I pointed out in #1 though, you'd think I'd see saplings. All of the saplings I've looked at had red buds for sure. Also the sugar maples planted on the side of the road down the street were easy for me to identify as sugar maple.

4: There are no sugar maples. Could be I don't have any sugar maples on my property. Seems unlikely considering the popularity of sugaring in my area, but every sugar maple I've seen around here was pretty clearly planted by a person. Doesn't mean they aren't common though, hickories are common in the area and I have none. The front 1/3rd of my lot appears to have been pasture about 100 years ago, though it has trees that look up to maybe 200 along where the stone walls run. The back 2/3rds doesn't appear to have been clear cut within the last 300 years, big old oaks, witch hazel and mountain laurel 25 feet high, doesn't look like it ever served any function except to grow trees and understory. You'd think I find some old sugar maples back there, or maybe along the stone walls in the younger woods in the front.

Anyway, which of these seem more likely, or maybe something else I'm not thinking of?

[bowhunter]

I'm not an expert and not from New Hampshire, but here goes.
1. Red Maples make syrup just like sugar's so it's not that big a deal. The sugar content for a red is generally lower, but....you have what you have.
2. Plenty of large operations run on mostly red maples so don't assume they're all sugar maples.
3. The leaves and the seeds are the easiest way to determine what you have. Sugar maple seeds fall around the time the leaves come down in the fall. The two winged seeds are joined at the tip of the seed and the two seeds together form a "u" shape. Red maple seeds fall in the spring and are joined together in more of a "v" shape. The difference is noticeable.
4. Red maple leaves have serrated edges, while sugar maple leaves have smooth edges. Pick up old leaves, if the edges are serrated you have reds, if the edges are smooth like the leaf on the Canadian flag you have sugars.

[Michael Greer]

Tap 'em. I have Reds here that measure as high as Sugars. They have a bit of a different behavior during the season, so having all Reds will at least be consistent.

[Loch Muller]

I'd tap em either way. Sounds like your thinking along the right lines as far as ID of the trees. Leaves are the easiest way if you can see them. There are differences in the bark, but it takes a bit to get used to it (no pun intended). I use the bark to ID the species then confirm it if and when I can see the leaves. Twigs are good too. If your really only wanting to tap sugars try and get a local producer or forester to come over and take a look. I'd stop by, but New Hampshire is a bit too far out of my way.

[Mark-NH]

Is your property wet? Reds like wet

[Marcus]

The buds on a sugar maple are small and look like a sugar cone that they use for ice cream.

[KGodshall]

Just my 2 cents and my experience: Tap what you have and what you know to be "maple". As you progress through your "maple experience", whether it be during sugaring, or maybe just a summer walk through the woods, or firewood harvesting in the fall, you might notice trees that you missed before that are "better" tapping trees: sugars, larger diameters, etc.

For me, it's a constantly evolving, growing process. I started off with just a few spiles, thinking I only had a couple of trees, to now, where I have 25 spiles and thinking maybe I need a few more, because I've "discovered" a few more trees that I previously didn't realize I had before.

All part of the fun and learning of sugaring.

Best.

[northwoods_forestry]

A couple tips on differentiating red maple from sugar maple:

1. Sugar maples show much less variation in growth form than red maples and for the most part the differences are readily apparent. Red maple bark, twigs and even buds are all highly variable and for a few the only sure fire way to tell is to see the leaves as has already been noted here.

2. Bark - Sugar maples do not have smooth bark. Red maples almost always have some smooth bark. If your tree has any areas of smooth bark larger than a dinner plate on the bole it is a red. But, a lack of smooth bark does not make it a Sugar maple. Sugar maple bark tends towards brownish-gray while red maple bark is usually just plain gray or reddish gray.

3. Twigs - Sugar maple twigs diverge from branches at about 45 degrees, never at 90 degrees. Many red maple twigs diverge at 90 degrees, so if you see 90 degree angles it is a red. But, a lack of 90 degree angles does not make it a Sugar maple.

4. Buds - Sugar maple buds are always sleek and pointy - shaped like bullets. Red maple buds are almost always short and knobby, more like buttons.

Here's a good article on this subject from spring 2007 in Northern Woodlands magazine:

http://northernwoodlands.org/knots_and_bolts/red_versus_sugar

[happy thoughts]

I, too, would just tap what you know to be maples for now. Reds will make delicious syrup, too. Come spring and summer any sugars that exist on your property will be much easier to identify. At that time you can mark any you find for next year. I also agree with the poster who asked about wet property. Reds like wet and are sometimes called swamp maples. And one possibility you didn't mention, has your property been timbered off at any time? Maybe that's where your hard maples went.

[maplestudent]

a lot of good suggestions given already.

in your item #4 you talk about the different parts of your land. that description provides clues, and along with other clues that are there but you may not have noticed, that may provide an explanation as to why you have what you have. For a good read on the subject, check out Reading The Forested Landscape - A Natural History of New England. by Tom Wessels.

You'll never look at your land the same way again.

[Ittiz]

Some areas are wet some are dry. The dry areas are harder to get at though because the mountain laurels tend to grow thick in those places.

I'm not aware that it's been timbered, at least not the back. There are old cut stumps on abutting lots, but I haven't found any on mine. The front side shows signs of being an animal pasture maybe 100 years ago.

From what you guys are saying it seems a red can look very much like a sugar, but not the other way around.

Maybe I'll take a closer look at the dry areas and see if I can spot anything.

[maplestudent]

what other types of trees do you have on each part (front third and back 2/3)? When it comes to site conditions, tree species can be an indicator. Red maples are considered generalists, which are plants that have a broad range of tolerance of the factors of site conditions (as are white pine, paper birch, and hemlock). White oak and mountain laurel are strong eco-indicators, meaning they are plants with very specific requirements for moisture, temperature, or nutrients (white oak - warm, dry sites; mountain laurel - acidic dry sites). witch hazel prefers warm sites, red oaks prefer moderate to warm dry sites, but sugar maples prefer moderate to rich sites.

does this mean that the sugar maples won't grow in he same place as the white oaks? not necessarily, but when competing for sun in the overstory space of the forest canopy, chances are a tree that best suits the site conditions will win unless there is some sort of event (fire, wind, etc.) that changes the odds.

so in the back 2/3, it may be that in the past, sugar maples just couldn't compete with the oaks, mountain laurel and which hazel in those conditions.

for the front 1/3, when a pasture is reclaimed, there are numerous factors that can affect whatever plant/trees become the dominant species. (by the way.....if the stone walls around the pasture area have large rocks, then it was most likely in fact pasture. but if those walls have a lot of small stones, then it was most likely cultivated, because the small stones were removed from the soil. during the winter, frost in the soil pushed smaller stones to the surface, and they would be removed and thrown on top of the walls). if the trees in this part are all of a similar size/height, then they probably all grew from a similar point in time. if there is a large variety of species and sizes, then there was probably one or more events in the past that affected what grew.

so, it may be that there are sugar maples down the road but your land has none, because conditions/events at the two sites were not the same.

moral of the story is, tap the reds.

[maplestudent]

Cornell has an excellent publication on everything you need to know about the sugar maple.

http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu/pubs/trees.htm

[happy thoughts]

Cornell also has these pages that have many pictures of all tree parts to help ID the more commonly tapped maples

http://maple.dnr.cornell.edu/kids/tree_index.htm

[Ittiz]

At the moment I'm tapping the reds. I also like tapping birches as well, especially black birch. Been experimenting with making birch beer completely out of sap and twigs from the tree. Birches won't run for awhile though.

[maplestudent]

Making birch beer from the sap of birch trees? Interesting. Next time I go into the woods here, I'm going to check if I have any chocolate stout trees.

[Ittiz]

Yeah birch trees have something like 4 times the flow rate of maples, but only like 1/4th the sugar content. The boil down is something like 110 to 1. What I was thinking of is to cook the blackbirch sap down with blackbirch twigs in it (for that yummy birch flavor) until it has a similar sugar content to a bottle of soda. Then filter it and add some CO2 producing yeast to carbonate, or I could use a soda stream I guess, but than it really would be birch soda and not birch beer.

You have to use black birch though, those other birches make the sugar, but not as much wintergreen flavor. Yellow birches produce a little, but white, silver and river birches make just about no wintergreen.

[maplestudent]

I'm going to have to scope out what I have for birches once the sugaring season is done, so I can plan for next year.

[BC Birch Tapper]

Birches typically flow after maples although there may be some overlap. I recall reading a scientific article in University which compared the sugar contents of all the different maples and then birch at the end. They said with all the different maples and the low sugar content of birch..... why would you bother. The answer is simple....sugar maple does not grow everywhere. Here on the west coast they also tap big leaf maple and sell the finished product at a hefty sum......niche market stuff. I'd say tap what you have, tell people what you have.....it may taste a little different, but make a good product, be truthful and enjoy. Many folks go for the bolder flavours which will be the end result of your efforts.

[BC Birch Tapper]

At the end of the season I will typically make wine but it takes a good 2 years to mature. we've also sold some birch syrup to a local microbrewery who have made a birch syrup stout which is very popular (Barkerville Brewery)

[Ittiz]

Well Red Maple is supposed to have a similar flavor to Sugar Maples. I think most major producers tap both. I'm tapping Birch to make niche products. Wanted to make Birch Beer with it, I also have lots of Sassafras on my property so I was thinking of making Root Beer with it too. I tap specifically Black Birch (Sweet Birch) because it contains large amounts of wintergreen. Although it seems for the most part the wintergreen doesn't come out with the sap, or that it gets evaporated during the cook down. So this year I built a vacuum still to see if I can do it without having to add much heat.

[BC Birch Tapper]

Any methodology you can use to remove water without heating will result in a lighter syrup. That should hopefully make your life easier as well.

[Ittiz]

So now that the buds have broken and the leaves are coming out I'm starting to find actual sugar maples on my property! None big yet, but lets hope I find some big ones. To my surprise I also found some silver maples growing wild even though they aren't supposed to be in my area. I'll keep a close eye and hopefully I can find some big sugar maples!

[BC Birch Tapper]

I recall reading a scientific article in university several decades ago which compared the sugar contents of all the different maples, and sugar maple was by far the highest, but you can tap any maple to make syrup. Best of luck.