Alaskan Sawmill / Round Tree Build?

[Too Tall]

I'm building a 12x16 sugar shack/nuthouse this spring/summer/fall. It can't be any bigger because of permits/zoning.

I'm going to use the trees on my property to build it.

Here's where I'm struggling to make a decision:

I'm thinking of building it using "roundwood" or basically small trees cut and nailed together. See this for an example: http://www.snakeroot.net/farm/BuildingTechniques.shtml

-- or --

Using an alaskan sawmill with my Stihl MS660 to mill posts and beams, floor boards, shiplap siding, etc.

-- or --

....and this is what I'm leaning towards....a combination of both. Milling the posts, floor joists, sill logs, flooring & siding and using roundwood for the rafters, ridgepole, other studs around window openings.


So my question is...has anybody done something similar with their sugar house/sheds/etc? Any advice before getting too deep into this?

It seems the more I think and plan the more my design changes. I spent the last two days noodling over how to trim windows/corners when using roundwood for posts and having shiplap siding.

Any advice from anyone who has attempted something similar would be appreciated.


Brian

[maplerookie]

Brian..... I have never done what you are attempting to do but it seems to me you could mill smooth sided boards and stud materials for trimming out your windows and doors and then just attach them to the round. way back when they used a lot of rounded rafters and studs it worked well for them...one log at a time. .. I t will take a lot of sorting to get similar sized trees for your studs and the rafters but I think it is doable... When ever I do a project my wife says most of my time is spent in the planning and I over think it. , and then I just change things as I go along. so don't stress on it too much. just go with it ..I bet it will turn out beautifully.. and you have the advantage of re-milling any logs that don't quite fit the spot. at any rate that is for next summer. now it is time for boiling and sugaring. Best of luck with your project. Have a great sugaring season.

[GeneralStark]

I have done something like this on some quick and dirty outbuildings that were temporary. If you want to build a structure that will last, this isn't the best technique unless you debark the logs. Even then, it is questionable. If you have access to cedar, black locust, or white oak you will be better off. I just took down a woodshed I built 4 years ago using round hemlock posts that were not debarked and there was lots of insect damage and some dry rot.

If you do decide to use roundwood you can square the faces you will fasten to using a chainsaw and or adze.

If you have large logs to mill, you are better off doing that. Perhaps someone in your area does custom bandsaw milling. Alaskan mills are great for small jobs but they are slow and waste quite a bit of your log.

[Too Tall]

Thanks for the advice. I should have mentioned, I'm going to be using Oak, Maple and Poplar. The sills will be up off the ground (set on blocks). I was planning on using a draw knife to remove the bark from the roundwood. Then, after thinking about it, it might just be faster to mill square beams.

I have a feeling this is going to be a "figure it out as you go" build.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I have some experience building with logs. I used 5 big logs as collar ties in my camp, and built my porch with 8-14" round logs for the frame. Also built a 24*30 pole barn with telephone poles last fall, which is pretty much like logs.

I would look for Hemlock trees to use for the frame and milled lumber for siding and window framing. Spruce is good for rafters as it is much lighter. Cedar works too if you have some. I would cut the trees asap so they dry a little for the summer. Then cut them into the desired lengths and sort them. For a 12 * 16 I would use six - 10-14" round posts. Set 3 posts wild in length on each of the 16' sides. Once you have your 6 posts set and braced with multiple angle braces, use string and string level to set height. Attach string on a corner post at desired height, then level string and attach to the other corner post on the same 16' side. I would go for 8'. Mark each post where the string touches the posts and then remove string and cut off posts with chainsaw on the mark. Then use a 20' beam centered that will set on top, notched for each post. This will give you a 2' overhang on each gable end. You can cut it flush when mounted if you can't keep the overhang. Once you have all post set and beams set on each long side, now you can add in collar ties. 3 or 4 beams (depending on arch location) connecting the sides together setting on top of the wall beams. They will only be 12' so they don't need additional support under the middles. Notch each end and each place they will set. From this frame you can do whatever you want for window/door frame etc.

Using logs for rafters is a little harder. now you need to worry more about using same sized pieces in terms of diameter. I built a shed roof with Hemlock and Spruce this past fall. Used a 20' 6-8" spruce as the ridge pole. I had first chainsawed two sides on the ridge pole to have a flat surface to mount the tops of the rafters too. I then determined my pitch and cut that angle on the smaller end of all the rafter pieces. I used a 9/12 which I think is 37.5 degree angle. The rafter logs were all longer than needed. This is so I could then use a string after finished and cut them all off evenly. Secure the cut angle end to the ridge that you have temporarily set in position using bracing. To attach the bottom/tails to your 20' beams that are on top of the walls, you need to notch them. Scribe them using a pencil, then lift away from wall a little and cut with chainsaw, do all the rafter tails this way and adjust the notch's as needed to get them all as flush with one another as possible. Make sure your wall and frame is square and level before you start the roof. For a 20' ridge which give you a 2' over hang on each end, I would use 6 rafters, maybe 7 per side. You can then strap out the roof using 1" lumber and put on a metal roof.

This is really just part of what you will need to do. But is a place to get started. Cutting the notches really isn't that bad once you get used to it. I recommend peeling the logs of all bark before installation. This is a PITA. But is worth it. Otherwise it will make a good bug home. I soaked the logs in water once they were dry and peeled the bark off that way, then scrubbed off remaining bark. This was a PITA, buts looks really nice. It may be better with a log peeler. Hope this helps you in your project, good luck.

Ben

[Too Tall]

Ben, that helps a lot. For framing, this is what I was going to do. Let me know if you think it will be OK based on your experience.

4) 16' sill logs sitting on blocks. Approx 8" dia and flattened on the bottom side (or maybe both top and bottom)
2) 12' collar ties? I don't know what they're called. One on each end keeping the sill logs in place. 8" dia.

Then building 3 sets of (man, I don't know my terminology) 8' verticals with a 12' cross beam and putting them at the 0, 8 and 16' mark. Again using 8" dia logs

Then using 2) 20' top sills to connect my 3 cross beams together. Maybe using 6" dia logs.

Then putting a 4' ridge pole support in the middle of each of my 3 frames. Maybe 6" dia logs.

Then running a 20' ridge pole on top of those 3 ridge pole supports. 4-6" dia log.

I was planning on running 3" dia x 9' long rafters every 24" and using 1x3 purlins on top of them to screw the metal roof to.


I know my dia of logs seem to be much smaller than what you used. Keep in mind this is 12x16. Also, I'm not sure...can I run my top sills the way I am planning or should they be placed directly on my verticals and then have the cross members on top of the top sills? I figured my way would make it easier when setting rafters.?

Forgive my lack of terminology knowledge. :)

[Too Tall]

I should say. I'm using 4 16' sill logs because i will eventually be putting in a floor and I wanted more support.

[Tor Haxson]

I use a chainsaw lumbermill for making "rafters" out of trees. The thing is they only have to be flattened on two sides, so a chainsaw attachment that allows you to bring them to 6" top to bottom and leaves the sides is great for rafters.

Mill the beams, mill the rafters, mill some posts.

Milling 1 x boards with a chainsaw is tedious.

2 cuts gives you a rafter, leave the sides. 4 cuts gives you a nice timber. You can not buy those.

8 timbers 12 rafters is a reasonable amount of cutting. Once you get into the many many many boards, get some green from a sawmill, usually they are pretty cheap.

--
Tom

[maple flats]

I'd not set this on blocks, unless the blocks go below frost line. If you just lay then on the ground, or even dig to get to mineral earth, they will move every spring. I tend to like either a footer with blocks or a sonotube (heavy cardboard tubes, come in 6", 8", 10" 12" diameters and 4' long) filled with concrete. Just dig below frost line for your area.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Brian,

I'm glad that helps. From the sounds of it you are on the right track. It will be a lot of trial and error. Have a few extra beam pieces in case you make mistakes.

The one thing I would consider amending is the base. Like Maple Flats said, it will move with the freezing and thawing ground.

He suggested Sonotubes and concrete. These work well, but can get pricey. I suggest to go to your local utility company and pick up some short telephone pole pieces (should be free). Bury them 3-5 ft deep and build off them. Even wrap them in a black plastic bag below grade and tape it. This will prevent the frost from "grabbing the pole" and moving it. Water is the number one killer of buildings in the north. Extra elevation off the ground, extra overhangs, anything you can do to divert water away from your structure will help give it a longer life.

Good luck, building with logs is a lot of fun and rewarding once you get it all done.

Ben

[GeneralStark]

One thing I have had decent luck with is a modified "rubble trench". The concept here is that you remove the topsoil and dig below frost line or to a depth that seems reasonable for the soils, and backfill with gravel. I have then built posts with dry stack blocks on the gravel. The idea is the gravel will drain and minimize the frost heaving. This worked great for me for 5 years on well drained soils with a 2' depth of gravel for a yurt platform. This won't work well with clay soils.

[Too Tall]

The issue I have is with zoning. My building has to be less than 200 sq ft and it cannot be permanently attached to the ground. It has to be movable. I guess I'll dig down 40" and fill with gravel and place my cinder blocks on top of that. It's real sandy soil. Anybody want to come over and dig 20 holes? Might need to enlist the help of my neighbor with a backhoe attachment.

[Clarkfield Farms]

Two HUNDRED sq.ft., MAX?!?! And it has to be moveable? Easy. Build something on a trailer and they haven't any say whatsoever. Level it up, block it to stabilize and good to go. Literally, to go anywhere. Good luck, I'm still going through my own hell with this town's codes.

[maplerookie]

ok so I had an uncle that had a similar problem.. It was built on a concrete pad and bolted down . when the building inspector came and told him it had to be moveable ...he unbolted it and picked it up with his backhoe ..The building inspector laughed and never bothered him again.

[chasesugarbush]

I built a post fame 20x16 last year with an Alaskan mill! It was time consuming but very happy with the way it turned out!
I did peel all the bark off the logs, helped big time with drying if you have any questions I would be happy to answer any questions if I can! Hope some pics will help!8962896389658966

[maplerookie]

I built a post fame 20x16 last year with an Alaskan mill! It was time consuming but very happy with the way it turned out!
I did peel all the bark off the logs, helped big time with drying if you have any questions I would be happy to answer any questions if I can! Hope some pics will help!8962896389658966Nice looking sugar shack..did it shift at all with the frost? I want to put something permanent up. don't have one of those sawmills but do have about 100 rough cut boards stacked out back. Hope the wife allows me to do it.

[Pete S]

Double check with your Zoning Laws, but especially with a "log" build, make your overhangs a large as possible to protect the logs from rain splash. From my experience, anything over 24" of an overhang goes against the building size, is then figured in. Just something to consider.

If you must have the building moveable, the drainage of the foundation (rubblestone) should be well drained. A pile of rocks won't move if it doesn't hold water and freezes. Here in WI there are very few old barns built with footings. Rest the building on this configuration and you should be good to go. If the evaporator is larger, maybe consider concrete if "allowed".

[RiverSap]

Nice shack chasesugarbush. This is my second year and I was thinking of buying a simple inexpensive mill like the Alaskan. I have plenty of Oak and sugar maple to build a shack maybe in a year or so. No shortage of projects around here and a shack is not at the top of my list. I am thinking something like this for next year in the interim. One thing you may want to look into is getting that foundation covered so critters do not take up residence.

9052

[The Sweet Spot]

Please do yourself a favor and do your research. Maple syrup is zoned AG in the state of Michigan. AG buildings are exempt from building codes. When I went to my building department to get approval they threw their arms in the air and said what are you thinking, and you don't know what you are doing. They continued to tell me what I was doing was commercial. They told me I could not use rough lumber on a commercial building and that I had to build a commercial building with a commercial kitchen and handicap bathrooms. I got in touch with my local AG inspector who put me in the right direction. I returned to the building dept. with a letter from a State Supreme Court Judge stating that Agricultural buildings are exempt from code. I also had the code stating that Maple syrup is to be zoned AG, in the state of Mich. I now have a 28'X40' building that we milled almost every stick for ourselves. With a 14'x40' hoop house on the south facing side. It is an asset to be sure. We have the space to expand our Agricultural endeavors, and it was done legally. Don't get me wrong, do not attempt to build without zoning approval and when you get it build it right. Have a great time building it and it will last your lifetime and many more. I will not build anything that will not be useful in 200 years. Or at least that is what I'm attempting. LOL