Tubing Washer

[NE Cornfed]

I'm sure this topic has been talked about before, but what is your preferred method of cleaning lines? Do you just put your first run on the ground? Tubing washer? Pressure washer? Compressed air? Etc etc.

We typically just put our first run on the ground, make some pretty dark syrup during our first boil, then things lighten up until we get toward the end of the season.

The reason I ask is because I'm contemplating trying to find someone with a tubing washer to flush my lines this year instead of letting our first run go on the ground. If I saw a noticeable difference, I'd probably make the investment in a tubing washer at the end of this season or beginning of next. We've got about 1200 taps on gravity and our sugarbush has a pretty decent rise to it, maybe 200'. So cleaning our lines with anything but a legitimate tubing washer would probably be very difficult.

[BreezyHill]

Well our operation has been going since 1971. Our washing methods have evolved over the years from washing items and equipment with Clorox solution to a mild detergent, commercial line washer with air injected to vacuum.
it is my personal belief that line washing is an important part of our/any production. the studies have all shown that clean is best.
I totally hated the line washer. It was rather messy and was rather time consuming running around the bush to clean taps and try to keep a vacuum system together while under pressure. I think it made for more leaks in the following season as well. on a hot summer day it might not be so bad; but running around in the bush in shorts and work boots is not my idea of enjoyable work either.

For several years now we use a 20% Clorox solution in a large mouth container to dip in the spout and clean with a brush in the tap and outside surfaces, redip and suck another shot of solution into the line and then give it a shot of rinse from another container. Then the tap is capped. off to the next tap.
The mains will get another 5 gallons or so of solution and then usually 10 plus gallons of rinse.
We use a 35 g tank on an atv to bring the water to the bush.

Success of the program is good as the lines don't look all nasty as in the old days and last season we hit .47 gallons syrup/ tap.

With two washers in the bush we do about 60 taps per hour, with another person that is filling containers, mixing solution, and running them to the washer people. It makes a fairly easy and quick work of a job that took all weekend in the old days.

This program has done a great job in the past of washing the releaser and made washing the collection tanks easier.

this post season will be a lot longer washing as we are adding dry lines to the main bush and multiply dry lines over our brook. This will take several more loads of water to totally wash the mains with plenty of solution and then a good rinse.

We take every extra effort to not spill any solution in the bush to reduce any animal attraction to the system or the bush.

Cornfed..love that handle. We raise angus cattle...I would suggest you look at investing in vacuum over the tubing washer. The payback is two fold...more product and easier washing.

if you really want a tubing washer I still have our old one and was planning to dig it out, clean it up and sell it.

Ben

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

There is currently a study underway to try to determine what if any washing method is most effective. I use the first run from old lines to rinse my Ro and the rest to make syrup. I have tried several wash methods and find the simpler the better. Results are all about the same. We currently pull under vacuum. If we used Breezy Hills method we would be spending about 200 hours just on cleanup. We average well over a third of a gallon per tap and half our taps are red maples.

[BreezyHill]

Thompson how long do you spend pulling your taps in the spring? We only doubled our time of pulling to do a wash, but research is showing that a good wash is showing responses similar to new taps and we spend less time than if we installed a new drop and spout every year and factor in the $.55 for a new drop and spout.

check out the data of Cornell Univ on the subject. Rather impressive convincing data to get producers to wash lines like the data of the 80's got producers to do the same back then.

[TunbridgeDave]

I agree with Breezy that washing or rinsing is important.

When we still had a gravity system we would park a tank or water on the top of the mountain and hook it into the end of the main line. We had a valve we could shut at the bottom and we filled the whole system with water(sometimes with Clorox if things were really dirty or we were late in getting to it). Then we would go around pulling taps and blasting the crud out. We put the tap back in the tree, and then would go around again and drain everything. It was time consuming and it was hard to get the tank up to the top. It's very steep and difficult to get there in the spring when it's wet. Also with almost a 1000 foot difference in elevation from top to bottom there was some serious pressure down low. We always got pretty wet. We tried pumping from the bottom with a pto powered piston pump but we couldn't go all the way up pushing a column of water, and we often blew the lines apart.

Now we have the vacuum and it's much easier to go around with a small container and suck water through the drops. And I only use water to keep the squirrel chewing down. It definitely does not work as well as the flooding method because of the shear volume of water we use to use, but it's much easier for us. I think the key is getting the line dried out after rinsing. I usually go up each lateral rinsing and then from the top, work back down leaving the drop open to let the vacuum dry out the line, and then plug. Even doing that you still have a small amount of water in the drop line sometimes that sits there all year long. I may go a step further this year and go back through and unplug all the drop and let them hang to drain fully. I don't care about mud wasps because I cut the seasonal spouts off the following spring.

Our system is by no means perfect. We have some mainlines that are over a mile long and are only 1". We don't have any dry lines either, but I keep everything tight and we made about .53 gal of syrup per tap.

[NE Cornfed]

I appreciate the feedback guys. This is the same type of scenario we would be working with right now. We've got about 1,100 taps on gravity, getting a tank of water up top would be tough, but it's definitely the most feasible. I have a feeling that using a tubing washer from the bottom would blow lines apart or not give us the pressure we need at the top of the sugarbush.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Thompson how long do you spend pulling your taps in the spring? We only doubled our time of pulling to do a wash, but research is showing that a good wash is showing responses similar to new taps and we spend less time than if we installed a new drop and spout every year and factor in the $.55 for a new drop and spout.

check out the data of Cornell Univ on the subject. Rather impressive convincing data to get producers to wash lines like the data of the 80's got producers to do the same back then.

Breezy,
I haven't seen any new Data from Cornell. Could you point me to it? I have seen some anecdotal stuff but no study results yet. My understanding was that there is currently a study underway that both Cornell and UVM are working on. We have used several methods of washing our lines. We have pumped water up through them, we have sucked water down through them, we have used a clorox solution as you suggest (squirrels and porcupines loved it!). We currently pull spouts with the vacuum on. Place thumb over spout and release several times, then cap spout. As each line is completed the vacuum is shut off and the valve on the high end of the line is cracked to allow drainage of the main line. Two of us can pull up to 2500 taps a day (and I ain't no spring chicken). I handle 7500 taps and if I was pulling at the rate of 60 taps an hour with 2 men (30 taps per man hour) that's 250 man hours and my men get 12.50/ hr. When I can be shown conclusive evidence of another system giving better results, I am game to try it.

[David in MI]

We have a pair of 55 gallon drums laying horizontally in the back of a gator 6x4 that are used for collecting our bags. I fill these with water and connect a 12 volt beer pump to pump the water into a sap line with the check valve adapter on the end. The tip of the adapter fits perfectly into the gravity tubing lines. We park at the top of the hill, connect to the uppermost tap, start the pump and open each drop line along the way down the hill so that everything gets flushed out. We have a switch on the pump so it can be switched on/off but it seems like we mostly just let it run.

To clarify: When we open up each drop line it's only for a few seconds to let the water exit and then we hook it back up again.

[BreezyHill]

I just got thedata from Steve Friday for a 4-H maple seminar. if was a power point that was not fully finished. he does a great job of getting data to me for classes.

I am fortunate we don't have any porcupines around the farm...or the ausies would have quills and skunk aroma. lol but we do enjoy getting rid of squirrels and found and terminated one with prejudice back in mid jan.

The two of us washing were averaging 60/hr each. Sorry if I messed that up on you. We are very careful to not get any of the cleaning solution spilled.

I think you may want to try one of the old deer hunting tricks of finding a stump and putting salt on it. this would be a great spot to sit and pick of those little gray monsters.

Remington 1187with 3" shells does a fine job of ....I have a nephew that want the all. He's 12 and skins them and cooks them up. That last one the dogs stool on us.

you might want to find a kid in the area to take care of the squirrels. my neighbor paid me $1/ woodchuck in the 70's. I would go out twice a week for him and pull in a couple Georges a week.

I will get you the data when it is finished, but I think you will be in for a surprise from what I have seen so far.

I too am a person that tries things for the experience at least. We should be back to 2000 for next season and I agree it is costly to do the washing but; the added time has been part of the program since the 80's. I remember the green lines with the black crud in them and am certain that was hurting production. With the costs of everything going up and syrup prices stagnated I have to do all I can to make more from the trees without costing more than is gained.

Good luck...looks like we might thaw out this week!