Long distance pumping

[Fireman]

Looking for information on long distance pumping. I searched the net, and obviously not getting the right key words in there. We have about 2000 ft. on flat ground, and then up into the trailer. I know about friction loss and such, but still a flow at the end of the line is all I need. This isn't a deal breaker for our operation. That distance is all dirt lane that is usually mud during sap season. We currently haul out of the woods on ATV. I had thought about a 1000 gallon tank in the woods and pumping it down the lane to the trailer. This may be a situation where I need to suck it up and haul it. I am going to call some pump manufacturers tomorrow, but wanted to get other ideas and opinions on here. Thanks!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Most of my sap is pumped. Some over a mile. Check the friction loss per 100 ft of pipe and size your pump accordingly. It is best if you can slope your pipe so it can be drained but not absolutely necessary. If it won't drain you will have to wait for it to thaw before pumping.

[325abn]

Now you got me thinking about this. It may be easier for me to put a tank up in a section of my woods and pump the 1100 feet which is mostly down hill except for a few gullies, rather than try to run gravity the whole way.

[325abn]

What is this friction loss you speak of?

[bowhunter]

Tell me what size(diameter) pipe you plan to use, how fast you want to pump and how much rise in elevation into the tank and I'll tell you what size pump you need.

Dave

[Greenwich Maple Man]

I use a deep well pump !

[maple flats]

Friction loss is the reduced flow you get because of the friction in the line. Just consider a garden hose connected to your home, lets say at 25 psi. If you connect 50' of 1/2" hose you get rather good flow out the end, if you connect 300' total hose, you get far less flow. Now, change that to larger pipe, maybe 1", you get lots more flow at the 300'.
Think of that on your 2000' distance. You need a bigger TF line and/or a bigger pump to move the sap. There are charts to give this info. The first is the flow you want (or need), the net lift or fall and the rest can be calculated for various pumps and TF line sizes.
I pump 950' and a net fall of 15'. I am in the middle of changing my FT line from 1" to 1.5" to save TF time.

[Russell Lampron]

I pump sap about 1500' with an elevation change of about 25'. I have done it with a Honda WX 10 1" pump using 1" pipe. I now use a Red Lion 2" pump and 1 1/4" pipe. The new set up is much faster.

[markcasper]

For what its worth, I have about 1100 feet of 3/4" white going across a field with only about a 1 1/2% slope. Theres about 275 taps and last year was my first year with this. Last year was a learning year. I had times where a 50 gallon tank was running over @ the releaser by the edge of the woods (the 1100 feet of pipe was attached to this tank which connected with the big tank at the road).....so I put a 100 gallon tank and there was a few times it was close to full, but never ran over. The main problem was a frozen spot in the line somewhere. Other than that it worked well, I can suck the 1100 feet dry if needed with my gathering tank, but there always was a stream running well when the line was open.
Fixes for this year.....put a 200 gallon bulk tank @ releaser with the drain pipe attached, put SS connecters to help thaw faster any spots in the field. A single 5/16" line running across the same 1100 feet was running 7 GPH when tried 2 years ago with water. I wanted 1/2" white pipe but its not made any more, the white may take longer to thaw, but the heating of the sap when it gets warmer will be minimized.

[Fireman]

Bowhunter, I haven't considered what size I want to use, I figured I would go with what would work the best. Right now, we haul all of our sap on ATV's up to the trailer at the end of the 2000+ ft. lane. It is not stoned, so you can imagine how muddy it gets from time to time. I would like to collect on the ATV's and store it for the couple of hours while collecting, and then pump it all up to the trailer. This would alleviate tearing up the lane. It is almost all flat. There is a rise in the middle, and then falls back down to about the same elevation. And when you get to the trailer, it would have to pump up about 7 ft. to get it into the trailer. What would you recommend?

[bowhunter]

There are still a lot of variables, but here's a starting point. Assume you want to move 1000 gallons in an hour. This is about 16.5 GPM. I would use 2 inch pipe and a pump capable of generating 45 psi with a flow rate of at least 15 gpm. 2 inch pipe at 16.5 gpm is about 2 feet per second through the pipe...which should be ok. The pressure loss through the pipe would be about 30-40 ft plus another ~15 feet in elevation change etc. for a total of 55 feet or about 23 psi. A pump capable of 45 psi should give you enough safety factor to handle your needs.

SCRATCH THE 2 INCH PIPE IDEA. THE PIPE WILL HOLD ABOUT 300 GALLONS WHICH IS A PROBLEM WITH SAP. 2 INCH PIPE IS A GOOD PUMPING SOLUTION, BUT NOT PRACTICAL. I would suggest 3/4 inch pipe. This will only leave about 40 gallons in the pipe. If you pump about 4 GPM it will take about 4 hours to empty the tank. The pump would need to develop about 160 feet of head for friction loss plus ~15 for elevation change, etc. for a total of 185 feet. This is about 80 PSI, so about 100 PSI of discharge pressure at 4 GPM might be a solution. I would still worry about freezing or spoilage in the pipe, so if you can keep the slope constant and have a place to drain near the pump and near your trailer at the end you might be able to drain into pails, etc. and save the sap.

[collinsmapleman2012]

Before I lost it, I was going to have a 1700 ft. transfer with 75 feet of lift, planned to do it with one inch line and a 2 inch high pressure pump from northern tool, that way i culd push it without worry.