determine the slope of a 1000' run of mainline using basic tools ?

[Maplesapper]

Hi folks;

How can we determine the slope of a 1000' run of mainline using basic tools ?
I think we have about 6' fall but cannot eyeball it given the trees and terrain that mislead your eyes.

We have a collection tank and a sugar shack 1000' away.
I have a 2" trash pump, and am planning on pushing the sap over to the shack if we run 1" line.
Would it be best to push up 10' right out of the collection tank, and then benefit from gravity on downsloping line back to the shack ?

Thanks-

[lpakiz]

Have you heard about a water tube level? Just a transparent tube filled with water. Garden hose with a couple feet of clear on each end will work, but can be heavy at 100 feet or so, full of water. 100 feet of 1/4 inch clear tube is not that much $$.
This takes two people. Make sure there is no air in the hose. We filled it by siphon from a 5 gallon pail on the roof of the pickup, rest of the hose on the ground.
Mark the low end tree temporarily, about eye high. A screw or nail works. Run the tube uphill as far as it or you can reach, then mark that tree at the level of the water. Keep the tube sealed with you thumb while moving so water doesn't escape. Use this method to dampen the water from surging, and slowly uncover the tube to keep one end or the other from overflowing the water. Remember, the water in each end of the tube is always level. Give the water time to stop moving and be sure to have the water exactly at the level of the lower mark each time. The new level might be a foot. Measure up an even distance (1foot?) to approximately eye high and install another nail. Record the 1foot you raised. Both guys move uphill and repeat. Each time, write down the distance you need to raise the mark to eye high. You need not go the same distance each time. Pick a convenient tree and go as straight, "cross-country" as you can.
At the last, top tree, mark where you want the main line to be, then measure that distance up from the last "level"mark. Add up all the foots, whatever you had to raise the mark each time. You also could record all heights in inches, if you wanted to. If you had a 1000 foot hose, you could do it in one shot.
This will be total rise ( or fall) for your elevation. If your slope is too steep for 100 feet at a time, go less. The 100 foot of hose can lay tangled on the ground and still give you an accurate level just 10 feet away, as long as there is no air in it.

The hose can be used to set the mainline elevation also, but raises must be done in exact, regular increments of 25 or 33 feet only, so you can calculate the fall of each increment. But first, you must know the total rise or fall. Sorry this got so long, PM me if you need more info.

[lpakiz]

To pump out, I installed the pump-out line straight up from the tank, maybe 12-15 feet. It is on High-Tensile wire. Then sloped slightly 285 feet down hill towards the road. Most sap drains to the road by gravity, but some is siphoned even up the vertical pipe. Only the vertical part drains back thru the pump. I catch that in an ice cream pail.

[Maplesapper]

I understand- Thanks

[Gary R]

Another way would be to use a lazer building level. Make a stick with a platform on top for the level. Someone else holds a much longer stick that is marked at the same height as the level's stick and increment line above and below that line. You and the other person move up or down the slope and record the difference in height. The lazer must be level to get an accurate reading.

[cbhansen]

A simple method is to use a hand held survey sight level. They are more than accurate enough for determining slope. You can pick them up used for $10 - $20. Below is an example.

http://www.stakemill.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1493

Cheers,

[maple flats]

The hose filled with water only works if the sun on the hose is essentially even (or no sun). If part is in the sun for several minutes but the rest is not, the level will be wrong. Do it on a cloudy day and it won't be an issue. Another way is to just use a builders level, any length. support it at eye level on the lower end of the hill so it stays level, then sight across the top to a point along the hill as far away as you can, have a helper mark a tree at that point. Then go to that point, set the level at eye level again, then measure the distance from the top of the level down to the mark on the tree, record that and do the same again until you get to the other end, add all the increments for your total rise. An easier way but not quite as accurate is to go to: http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/elevation Then search your location and pinpoint the location of each on the map. Then use the elevation function at the low end, the top end and do the math. That should get you pretty close if you can get accurate locations using land marks or from GPS coordinates.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I would think getting a 100' clear tube would be expensive, and filling it and managing both ends a major PITA.

You can do it by eye if you stick with basics. Tie an orange ribbon at eye height at he beginning of your run. Take 35 steps in the direction that is 6' up hill, big steps (about 100') Tie another ribbon at eye level, look back at the first ribbon and make sure it is flowing down hill. From each ribbon, pick a spot about 100' away a little higher than eye level at current location. head to that spot, counting to 35 steps again. Once you have the flagging set at over your 1000 ending at the highest point. Now that you have flagging set at eye level, it will be easier to see with the eye better. You can adjust as needed. It will be easier to visualize with the flagging.

[lpakiz]

I don't think I can see .6% grade with the naked eye. The OP said he had what he guesses was a 6 foot rise in 1000 feet. And I doubt any laser or level will be able to penetrate 1000 feet of woods and brush. It will have to be done in some shorter increments than 1000 feet. Perhaps a carpenter level, but in a hundred feet, you are looking at 7.2 inches of rise. Gonna be tough, and when slope is so precious, there is no room for error. You will need dependable support every 25 feet, and a darn tight line to prevent sags. So if you need a post every 25 feet, get 30-35 feet of 1/4 inch clear hose and start out. Every 25 feet, raise the mark 1.8 inches. Even then, I don't think .6% is feasible.
I stand by the water tube and two men for ultimate accuracy. I did not realize that sunlight played a part in it, tho.

[Maplesapper]

Well, thanks for the advice all.

We ended up using a basic line level and running on 50-75' increments or wherever the best tree was in our path.
Basically gives us a completely level line across the distance. It was a sunny day, so was nice to be out- but was slow going.
Glad we did all this work.

The slope of the ground turned out to be an illusion. Imagine looking at a sine wave for 1000' feet, up , down, flat, trees.....
We were 12' high off the snow where we started, and finished at below knee height.
Completely opposite of what you expect as you stare down into the woods.

[The Sweet Spot]

We used a cheap bullet level, you know the kind that is about 8-9" long fairly cheap. I taped a straw to one side of the level and just look through. I hold it against a tree for stability, get the bubble level, and look through the straw. You can determine where your lines need to go from there. Worked great for me and didn't cost an extra penny. Had the level and straw laying around, used the wife's tape.

[tonka]

Last year when I put up gravity lines for the first time I just used a 4 foot level, strung my tubing up and started from the bottom where the line empties into your tank, walk upto the line where it is bent around a tree, lay the level on the line find flat and then adjust your line so there is an inch or more on the down slop end of the level, once you get the hang of it, it don't take long to go through a few hundred feet of line, inexpensive and easy, especially if your doing it for the the first time. Also, it helps even more if you have a transit, if your by yourself stick the measuring stick in the snow/tie to tree/or have someone hold it in place, find level point and rise your line above to desired height. There is an equation to figure out how much of a drop you need to get a 2%,3%,4% etc. grade.