Wes Fab press with air pump tips?

[wishlist]

I have one on order and should have my hands on it by the end of next week. One thing I forget to find out is does it come with a regulator? If not , need to order one asap.

Other than that , are there any suggestions on using the air pump? What psi would you recommend using when filtering? I read somewhere or maybe it was a session at LEME that you can flush out press with permeate back into the finisher or I suppose into the evaporator. If you do this, what about the freezing afterwards? :confused:

[jmayerl]

No regulator needed, it has a valve that controls the incoming air. It takes lots of volume not pressure so at least have a 7 gallon compressor.. If it freezes (with anything in it)you will be buying a new one.

[wishlist]

Hey Jeff, ( got that right this time lol) ! I don't see how you can regulate air pressure with a valve.

I have a large compressor so volume isn't an issue. If I don't have a regulator and papers plug wouldn't I see 100psi plus at the pump? My compressor unloads at 120psi and I do have a regulator at the compressor but I thought it would be handy at that pump?

These pumps should run dry no problem and empty all liquids , I just need to remember to do it!

[sugarsand]

Im also starting this season with a double diaphragm pump. If I leave syrup in the pump, freezing wont be a problem will it? Ive been considering making a insulated blanket to wrap the whole press and cart with a light bulb to keep the chill out. Is this a crazy idea?

Sugarsand

[jimsudz]

Hey Bob, I thought you bought a diaphragm pump to make your own press.

[wishlist]

Hey Bob, I thought you bought a diaphragm pump to make your own press.

Jim, I thought all you NY guys would be tapping instead of on the pc? :)

That was my original plan, still have the pump tho. Maybe I can use it for something else? I got a deal that I just couldn't pass up on the press. Hopefully I won't do a Haynes and have syrup on the ceiling and walls! :lol:

[Machinist67]

I am a distributor for AODD pumps and you should always have a regulator on the pump. Start out with the pressure around 30PSI and turn the pressure up as needed. Most MFG's have a pressure limit around 100PSI max. Try not to over speed the pump and keep your strokes under 50 strokes per minute. This will greatly extend the life of the diphragms. To clean out the pump unhook the suction line and let it stroke a few times as this will remove most all the syrup.

[jmayerl]

I have a 7 gallon hf compressor. I turn the compressor regulator To 90. I have ran 40 gallons through my short bank and never went over 20 psi on the pump. Papers and de are cheap so it all gets drained and changed every day.

[Machinist67]

That is better yet! If you can pump the syrup at 20PSI your pump should last a long time.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I'm curious to know how people are sizing the compressors for these air pumps. For continuous use with air tools, I understand you have to plan for a specified CFM at a given pressure. But how long do you run these pumps to complete a filtering cycle, and does anyone know what the air consumption rate is at the lower pressures being used here?

Where I'm going with this question is can you simply have a larger air tank - say 10 gallons - pre-pressurized to 100+ PSI run this pump long enough to complete a filtration batch - and then let it recharge over a longer period of time with a smaller compressor?

[jmayerl]

The Manual that came with my 1/4 pump never had a consumption chart but I can tell you that a pancake compressor can get about 1/2 gallon through and then will not have a high enough recover to run the pump anymore. I usually run 5 to 10 gallon batches through and it takes about a gallon/ minute. Remember also that you recycle the first part if the batch back through to coat the papers and charge the press. I would say my compressor will cycle on 3-4 times during filtering. Like I said the air pumps use a lot if air but are nice because you can really slow them down and keep the pressure on the filter very low.

[Machinist67]

If you tell me what pump you have I should be able to provide you with a CFM chart for that pump. A portable tank will not have enough CFM to run the pump for any length of time.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

OK - I hadn't gotten as far as looking at a specific pump - just reading some threads where it seems that these are popular on the 7" presses. Sounds like unless you already own a pretty substantial compressor, this approach probably doesn't make a lot of sense vs going with a gear pump.

[wishlist]

If you tell me what pump you have I should be able to provide you with a CFM chart for that pump. A portable tank will not have enough CFM to run the pump for any length of time.

The wes fab I ordered comes with the 1/4" Wilden pump. I looked up the manual and at 2 GPM at 30psi discharge head requires 60psi air pressure and 1.2 scfm of air. This is just an example they listed and 60psi is way more pressure than what's needed in most cases from my understanding.

[lpakiz]

Wish list,
I believe that your syrup discharge pressure will be the same as the inlet air pressure. That's the reason you will have such great control of both pressure and volume using a regulator rather than just a valve. Matter of fact, if I could have only one or the other, I would choose the regulator. Easy to dial it down to zero PSI and stop the whole show. And talk about a way to " soft-start", nothing better.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

The wes fab I ordered comes with the 1/4" Wilden pump. I looked up the manual and at 2 GPM at 30psi discharge head requires 60psi air pressure and 1.2 scfm of air. This is just an example they listed and 60psi is way more pressure than what's needed in most cases from my understanding.

This is much more encouraging - that sounds like it would easily be supported by a pancake compressor - for example, HF oil-less model rated for 2.5 @ 90 psi, with built in regulator at $99 seems like it would be a good option?

I should also clarify - this would be for a 7 inch press. What air pump is typically recommended for that application?

[jmayerl]

See post #11. I guarantee that a "pancake compressor" will NOT work for a Wes fab 7" press with 1/4 air pump unless you are filtering less than 2 gallons of syrup.....in which case I would say money would have been better spent on something like a hand press.

[Russell Lampron]

I am using a 3/8" AODD pump on my Wes-Fab 7" short bank filter press. I use a 2 tank oil less contractor type portable compressor to run it. I believe it is 6 cfm but may be more. It does cycle a lot but keeps up with the pump with no problem. I have pumped as much as 15 gallons through it at a time. Will a pancake compressor work with a 1/4" pump? I would try it if I already owned the compressor but would buy something bigger if I didn't.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

See post #11. I guarantee that a "pancake compressor" will NOT work for a Wes fab 7" press with 1/4 air pump unless you are filtering less than 2 gallons of syrup.....in which case I would say money would have been better spent on something like a hand press.

From what I'm seeing here, that may depend on the pancake compressor. What were the specs on the one you were using?

For example, most brands have smaller units rated ~1 SCFM @ 40 PSI - which is surely inadequate to meet the requirement wishlist mentioned. And it seems like there is no chance that a pressurized 10 gallon tank with a little compressor is going to do a lot to help.

But a bigger unit delivers 2.5 @ 90 psi / 3.4 @ 40 psi. That's why I was trying to understand what specs these pumps have to size against, and what operating point people are running the pumps at for flowrate, pressure and total running time to process say 5-10 gallons in the filter press.

[wishlist]

I have a " spare " 3/8" Graco pump as well and I did find the specs on it for what its worth. 8723

[wishlist]

Wish list,
I believe that your syrup discharge pressure will be the same as the inlet air pressure. That's the reason you will have such great control of both pressure and volume using a regulator rather than just a valve. Matter of fact, if I could have only one or the other, I would choose the regulator. Easy to dial it down to zero PSI and stop the whole show. And talk about a way to " soft-start", nothing better.

Larry, it would l depend on how much head you have in the discharge side as far as pressure. The inlet air pressure will determine volume that your pumping as you stated. I think control as you explained will be a big benefit down the road.

I have a regulator on the air compressor at the outlet of the tank but thats not convenient as the compressor is in the barn. I will put a regulator on the pump so I can control it more easy. :)

[lpakiz]

You will like that regulator right close by!
I still think if you call for, say,15 psi on the regulator, your pump will stall when back-pressure (call this head pressure, too?) in the press gets to 15.1 psi. Now at 12 psi of back-pressure, the pump will not be cycling as fast as if you had only 2 pounds of back pressure, but it will be pumping.
I guess a gauge on the syrup line between the pump and the filter press would tell the story.
Oh, and I am assuming your regulator is equipped with an air pressure gauge, also?

[tuckermtn]

LArry - do you have a make/model of the regulator? This may be a dumb question, but I assume it would be on the air inlet of the air diaphram pump? I am looking to control some of the wildness of my outflow/discharge hose on the press. Shakes/flips around sometimes too much...too much flow?

[Snowy Pass Maple]

I have a " spare " 3/8" Graco pump as well and I did find the specs on it for what its worth. 8723

Thanks - the example shown would be right about the limit of a larger pancake compressor's recovery rate - but I also suspect the example at 3 GPM/70 psi discharge is also higher volume and pressure than what you'd run a 7" press at as well, right?

Is an assumption of 1 GPM and 40 psi reasonable?

I found a similar chart for the Wilden 1/4 pump and it looks like it would require about 1 SCFM @ 50 psi to deliver 1 GPM at 40 psi.

The other thing I'm not clear on is how much of an adjustment if any you have to make when pumping syrup instead of water?

[lpakiz]

Tucker mountain,
Eric, you can get them at the local hardware store. 1/4 NPT in and out. Get a brass hex nipple or two, and a valve is also nice. Our big-box farm store has them. Pretty generic. Oh, and make sure you get a gauge too. Nice to know what air pressure you are sending to the pump. A small one like on your water system works.
PM me if I can help more.
I'm in a big a$$ hurry right now, I could snap a pic later today or tomorrow if it helps...

[wishlist]

Make sure you install the regulator the correct way. Should be an arrow or something similar. I agree as well with Larry, put a gauge on it.

Snowy, your right about ratings on those pancake compressors. My wife's cousin is a carpenter and I recall seeing him on a job with 3 air framing nailers tied to a pancake compressor for his crew. I'm sure it wasn't a low cfm as those guys were putting some nails down in a hurry.