Cleaning pans after boiling

[The Sappy Steamer]

How are pans and equipment handled between boils in a typical operation? I think we may be over-killing the cleaning operation a bit. When we finish for the day, we pull our pans and wash them out completely,as well as the hood,steam stack, filter tank, canner, and all the other ditties used to make syrup. I can't imaging a big operation doing that with the size equipment they have. It's certainly no easy task for a small hobbiest like myself( Ok, my wife) We figured we were better off being too clean, rather than not clean enough. We are, however, trying to improve the efficiency of our whole program here, and that's an area we would like to know more about. Do other maplers just run hot water in their pans?,or just leave it until the next time?, or fill the pans with sap? Do they clean their steam hood at all throughout the season? Basically, what is the accepted standard for handling the cleaning between uses? Any imput would be greatly appreciated. :)
Dan

[Fred Henderson]

I never clean or drain my pans until I am done for the season. If we get freezing weather for a few days I will make a very small fire just to warm things up above freezing. And I have been told by costumers and others that my syrup has the best flavor that they have ever tasted.

[Russell Lampron]

Like Fred I don't drain and clean my pans during the season. The only reasons why you would have to would be if you had alot of sugarsand build up or if you were trying to improve the grade of syrup you are making.

If you are trying to get a better grade you would only need to clean your syrup pan. At that time you would have to decide if you are going to filter and refill your pan with the sweet you drained out or set it aside to finish at a later date.

Russ

[brookledge]

I have a 3X12. I never take my pans off during the season. For me as long as I reverse my flow in the syrup pan the sugar sand is kept in check. I may clean the pans a little in place if the weather allows or if there is a week of down time with no sap flow.
But other wise from one day to the next during the season no need to do anything except to keep an eye on freezing in the flue pans. And even then with the sap being concetrated it needs to get very cold to freeze hard enogh to do any damage. As fred said you can start a little fire under it just to keep it from really freezing or some have put a light bulb inside the arch to keep it from freezing solid
Keith

[HanginAround]

Your equipment is all sterile from heat and steam, no need to clean frequently. Most people just leave enough sap to load up the evap a bit and let the fire go out. Like some have said, niter (sugarsand) in the syrup pans has to be addressed, it you let it build up, it forms an insulating barrier between the fire and your syrup, and you'll burn your pan.

[Fred Henderson]

The niter/sugar sand is why you should reverse flow everyday, or with the big producers every few hours.

[The Sappy Steamer]

Thanks for the help guys! That's great to hear that we can slack off on the cleaning regimen. I know that was my least favorite part of what we were doing. Especially at about midnight. Like I said, I figured we were over-killing it, but I wasn't sure what we could get away with. I just told my wife that all the cleaning she did wasn't needed. She just laughed. I hope she's alright. I sure would hate to have to go pick her up when the sap flows, then take her back after the season. (I'll bet she thinks she'll be the one doing the driving) I'll have to keep an eye on her for awhile. If she's ok, I don't think I like her attitude. :)

[ennismaple]

We drain our pans to clean them about every 100-125 gallons. We find that the flues get too full of gunk and we don't get a good boil if we leave it longer than that. It also helps us to hold a lighter colour for longer.

[Fred Henderson]

We drain our pans to clean them about every 100-125 gallons. We find that the flues get too full of gunk and we don't get a good boil if we leave it longer than that. It also helps us to hold a lighter colour for longer.


What kind of gunk do you get un the flues?

[ennismaple]

What kind of gunk do you get un the flues?

It looks like mud when you drain and strain the sap/syrup from the flue pan and our front pan. Plus, the way we're set up we can't reverse the flow through our finishing pan so we have to scrape the sugar sand out of it or we don't get good heat transfer.

All our sap is filtered going into the tank on the wagon, coming out of the tank and as part of the pre-treatment by the RO machine so I know it's not debris in the sap (plus we only run tubing so there's little chance to get contaminants in the sap).

I should clarify that my original statement of 100-125 gallons is syrup not sap. This would equate to 4000-5000 gallons of sap has passed through the evaporator by the time it needs to be cleaned. If it's running well this should be 2 days production between cleanings.

[HanginAround]

I know very few people with reverse flow evaps, I think I've only ever seen a few.

My unc has two syrup pans in use at a time, and one spare, so he takes the front one off, moves the other one ahead, and swaps the spare clean one in at the end of every day (approx 120 gals of syrup). You can get pan cleaner that really takes care of the niter buildup without scraping and scrubbing too much. They are quite powerful, so read directions and don't let it soak too long.

You might want to check for soot and creosote on the fire side of your flues too... depending on how your fire burns, it can build up and slow down heat transfer in your flue pan.

[brookledge]

Pete
It must be the difference in the areas because everybody around my area has reversable flow pans unless they have a home made setup. If you have a large evaporator I would think you would need alot of help to constantly be taking your pans off. I have revolution style pans that always draw off on the same side and reversing flow is very simple.
In my case I'm a one man operation and taking pans off the arch is not an option. Plus having more than one syrup pan ties up alot more money in my mind. When I reverse flow, the sap flows into the section that was previously syrup and the nitre just flakes off as it boils.
Keith

[HanginAround]

I know there are a few, dad would know more about how common they are. In the 20 or so camps I've been in, I would say most are traditional, with 2 section syrup pans and two pockets on the right side. Maybe I wasn't paying all that close attention either :) I'm sure there are a lot of smaller evaps where you are, not sure if that makes a difference in the prevalence of RF or not. It was only a few yrs ago I even knew there was such as thing as something smaller than a 4 x 14 lol. If someone has a 6 x 16 , likely always 2 people around anyhow, takes 2 to keep it fired, syrup filtered, RO running, etc.

[Fred Henderson]

My new 3x8 out ouf Quebec City is a reverse flow. That is what I told the guy I wanted just so that I did not have to change pans to reverse flow. When I reverse flow I also reverse in the flue pan. Ihad to remake a few fittings so to reverse all I do is changed one plug, then close a valve and open another. I said it before and I will say it again I sure hope that the builder has a patent on the flue pan because its awesum. :D

[The Sappy Steamer]

Ok then, with all that being said... if you don't have a reverse flow, how long will it take for the niter to build up if I'm boiling at about 25-30 gph? How many gals of syrup do you figure I would have to produce before it becomes an issue in a 2x6 raised flue? Can I assume that if I can see it I should clean it ASAP? Will it develope fairly rapidly once we see it,or will it take a while to get "bad"? The only sugar sand we have had to deal with thus far has been a filtering issue and not in the pans. I've heard about it alot, but have not seen it yet. The only thing we've seen in our pans is the white mineral looking build-up that cleans up pretty easily. Nothing like niter.

[Fred Henderson]

Sugar sand or niter vary from region to region so I can not answer your qusetion. On my 2x6 flat pan I could make 60-80 gals of syrup before any build up. I have heard it said that the closer you(trees) are to bedrock formation the worse the sugar sand will be but I do not know this for a fact.

[The Sappy Steamer]

Well that gives me a clue anyway Fred. That's quite a bit of boiling before the sand becomes an issue. Even if it's every 30-40 gals, it's a whole lot easier than what we have been doing. I hadn't heard that about the bedrock theory. I wonder if it's just bedrock or if shale effects it as well. We seem to have an unbelievable amount of sand in ours when we filter. I read the posts about dead bacteria in the sap and don't believe that's the case. We have been over-killing our sap collection equipment cleaning as badly as our pans. We collect daily if it flows. Interesting stuff anyways

[brookledge]

I also agree that sugar sand varies from one to another and it also varies from year to year. As for me on the average I reverse flow every twenty gallons or so which is once a day. But some times it is longer. It is easy to tell when it is building up by looking in the bottom of the syrup pan.
If you get a buildup and do not take care of it, it could lead to burning your pans and reduction of boiling capacity.
Keith

[Fred Henderson]

With my old flat pan when I went in in the morning before starting a fire I would put on a clean rubber glove and feel the bottom. If its there you will feel it.

[The Sappy Steamer]

Thanks for the pointers, it's going to save us alot of work getting away from most of the cleaning.

[Fred Henderson]

Making syrup had come a long way since I was a kid. The cleanness was never there when I was 17 years old helping out. The guy that I helped would just throw a pail of sap in his pans to rise them out at that start of the season. I don't know what he did at the end cause I was never there. He would take in buckets to the barn and wash them with a brush that he had rigged with a flat belt to run off his tractor. He would use the same felt filter all day. :D

[The Sappy Steamer]

I bought a quart of syrup one time that looked like used motor oil and had a metallic taste to it. It was labled "medium". Sure would hate to see the darker stuff. We drove by the place where it was made and were sick that we even tasted the crap! They sure weren't over doing the cleaning on ANYTHING. If that was the only time you tried maple syrup, you would be telling people for the rest of your life, that the stuff is horrible. "They" say the Indians would put hot rocks in dug out logs that held sap. That sounds a ton better than warm horse balls in a metal pot to me. :)

[royalmaple]

What is the GPH rating on a set of horse balls?

:lol: :oops:

[Fred Henderson]

You are never too old to learn, I never heard of the warm horse balls. 8O

[Russell Lampron]

I would imagine that it would take a long time to make syrup with warm horse balls. 8O With that being said I think the gph would be in negative numbers. :D

Russ

[cncaboose]

In my 25+ years as a large animal veterinarian I have dealt with a lot of warm horse balls. I will say that they have no value, except for the local dog, once removed from their warm horse.

[royalmaple]

You know when people post LOL and all that,

Well you have to ask yourself are you really Laughing Out Loud, well guess what I am on this one with the horse balls.

Just too funny.

Russ I think you are right on the negative gph, since they may perspire and actually add water back to the sap.
:lol:

Sappy that was a good one, now see where this has gone. Snowball effect.

Boy do we need some sap to boil or what?

[Fred Henderson]

I am not sure about the rest of you but I got too much time on my hands. Sure could use sime sap to boil. :D

[Rocky Mountain Maples]

Enough about the horse balls. Getting back to proper cleaning. We have a producer here in New Brunswick that cleans every pan every day. He has spare front pans and a spare flue pan. He built his own flue pan washer. He is a very innovative person. He sells most of his syrup on the bulk market. So he strives to get the lightest color syrup he can possilbly make so as to get the best price per pound. He is so large of a producer that there was a time when his evaporator never stopped boiling for 9 days, night and day. Thats a lot of maple syrup :!: He does't use air injection to prevent niter build up, he loads his evaporator with just enough sap to cover the flues. He also runs automatic float systems all round. I dont think he made any dark syrup at all last year. It was all light with very little medium. So those who want light syrup, clean clean clean, for those wont stronger flavor darker stuff dont worry about the cleaning as much.

Dave

[Rocky Mountain Maples]

Enough about the horse balls. Getting back to proper cleaning. We have a producer here in New Brunswick that cleans every pan every day. He has spare front pans and a spare flue pan. He built his own flue pan washer. He is a very innovative person. He sells most of his syrup on the bulk market. So he strives to get the lightest color syrup he can possilbly make so as to get the best price per pound. He is so large of a producer that there was a time when his evaporator never stopped boiling for 9 days, night and day. Thats a lot of maple syrup :!: He does't use air injection to prevent niter build up, he loads his evaporator with just enough sap to cover the flues. He also runs automatic float systems all round. I dont think he made any dark syrup at all last year. It was all light with very little medium. So those who want light syrup, clean clean clean, for those want stronger flavor darker stuff dont worry about the cleaning as much.

Dave

[The Sappy Steamer]

I don't know where I'm gonna find the time to boil, working 50hrs a week and trying to get my "bachelor of maple" degree learning from you guys on The Trader. I'll have to do some "jockeying" of my schedule. WHO SAID JOCKEYING? Leave it alone fellas.

[the old guy]

I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF COOKING SAP WITH HORSE BALLS, SO I CHECKED IT OUT! HERE IS A SEARCH ON THE WEB!

http://www.horseballs.com

THE OLD GUY

PS: THERE A MANY MORE SITES, TOO I GUESS