vacuum set-up

[mountainvan]

I got my tubing pretty well set for next year in my big woods, I know where the releaser will go, right above the tank, but where to put my vacuum pump is the question. There is an old level logging road fifty feet distance and about twenty feet higher in elevation than the tanks. I think this is a good place to put my vacuum pump. Any thoughts in maple land?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[brookledge]

Like Kevin said put it where it is best for you. Doesn't even need to be that close to your releaser except for the fact that you will need to spend the $ for the tubing to get from the pump to the releaser. Another factor is electricity, how far away from your source, usually its best to stay close to your supply.
If you are using another method to power the pump consider acsess to re fuel. Also keep it out of site the best you can. You know the saying out of site out of mind. Seems like every year there is a rash of thefts.
Sounds like the spot you have in mind will be ok.
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

Van,

I have my pump at the sugarhouse and my releaser is downhill 900 feet away. The first season I used it I had it next to the releaser with a gas engine. That was a pain to keep fueled and running. Now I have an electric motor on it and I can run it longer and keep an eye on things easier.

Russ

[mountainvan]

Thanks for the info. I'll put it on the logging road and lock it up. It will only be out for sugaring season and that's an easy place for me to walk into. I have a honda 5.5 engine that I will have to keep refilling often.... unless I hook the engine up to boat gas tank from gander... Thanks again.

[Parker]

I take the gas tank off the honda 5.5 engines,,I have a 5 gallon plastic bucket I hang in a tree,,tap a hole in the bottom of the jug,screw in a pipe thread fitting - to 1/4 " barb then 1/4" gas line into the honda,,should run for 8-9 hours,,,with the regular tank will run for about 1 hour-with a surge 76 hooked to it,,,,
I read somewhere that you got a cast singel groove pulley for your moter,,,I have blown a bunch of those apart ( most of the time during a BIG run on a holiday),,,,now I try to run the steel 2 grove pulleys,,,I can get you one if you want,,

[Fred Henderson]

2 sheaves would be a lot better . You are really trying to do too much work for just one sheave. If it didn't blow it apart the belt would go.

[mountainvan]

I have two sheaves on my honda motor, getting another belt this weekend on the way home from Buffalo.

[sbmaple]

What rpm should a surge alamo pump turn?

[mountainvan]

Got another question with vacuum. Hooked everything together,except releaser, and was wondering about the vacuum regulator. I got the spring type 3/4" thread. Is screwed down or up less tension, therefore letting more air in at a lower vac.? I had my gauge up to 20" and the regulator did'nt open at any setting. Normal?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

It does push in by hand. I think it's the second you described. It has what looks like a plastic bell on top. I'm thinking I'll adjust the vacuum by the throttle on my gas engine. At half throttle it holds 18", granted that's not with any co2 being pulled through the lines. I think I'm going to try and keep the vac. at 12-15" since the pump is new to me and I don't want to burn it up.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

Thanks. Started my pump up today, just for fun, did'nt start pulling vacuum till it ran for a bit. It was 28 degrees so I guess that it needed to warm up some. Sound right?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[HanginAround]

You could have sticking/seized or worn out vanes too.

[mountainvan]

Probably a little of both, low rpm and sticking vanes. I'll get some mm oil this weekend and give it a try. Thanks for the help.

[Russell Lampron]

Van, automatic transmission fluid works good too.

Russ

[mountainvan]

Russ, all I have is manual tranny fluid for a 96 dakota. Don't have the truck anymore though.

[Russell Lampron]

Van, if the manual trans fluid is like gear oil or it won't work. If it is like motor oil you probably use it as a lubricant after you get it freed up but I don't think I would take the chance.

I was thinking that if you had a quart of auto trans fluid already you could save yourself a trip to the store. I have a good supply of ATF, the Dexron/Mercon type, so that is what I run in my vacuum pump all of the time. It has good penetrating and lubricating qualitys.

Russ

[mountainvan]

Played around with my pump again today after adding more taps in my big woods. Poured about a quarter cup vacuum oil in the housing and it started pulling right away, think I have to clean the reclaimer again. Got it up to 22" vac.,(not full throttle) turned the set screw on the regulator this way and that, no drop or increase in vacuum. If I push it in it works, could I have a bad regulator? I did get the one from partsdeptonline. I'd like to get it sorted out soon. Have to go for another biopsy in a couple weeks.

[mountainvan]

Here's the deal. Took the regulator off of the pump, put a smaller weaker spring in it, and it worked fine. This one you turn the plastic bell to set vacuum level. What's up with this?Anyone jump in on this.( the spring that is). I definitly will not run the engine full out this regulator can't keep up with the pump even when it's completly open. Guess it pulls quite a few cfm. yee haw!!

[mountainvan]

Actually talked with my wife last night about my regulator dilemma. Her thought, and her thoughts are smarter than mine any day, is that this regulator is meant for a vacuum pump that runs very high vacuum. At least past 22". Sound right?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

I trimmed a little off of the regulator spring and backed off all the way it stays at 18" vacuum. I'll leave it like that for now and see how it works with the sap flowing. Thanks again for the help.

[brookledge]

Van can you add any length to the threaded rod or else get a weaker spring
Keith

[mountainvan]

I may get a weaker spring, but I got it so it works. Talked to another producer yesterday who runs vacuum, he thought 18" vac. was great.

[Pete33Vt]

Van, 18" is what I run for vacum and I have never had a problem with it so you should be set. My feeling is (if it ain't broke don't fix it). I would try running more but I want to keep my trees up on the hill. Not sucked upto the vacum shed. :lol: :lol:



Good luck Pete

[Russell Lampron]

Van, I run my vacuum pump at 18" as well. It runs about luke warm at that setting so I don't have to worry about burning it up. I am running a Delaval 73 dairy vacuum pump.

Pete, you don't have to worry about sucking your trees down into your vacuum shed. If you have a liquid cooled pump you can suck it down as much as you want without hurting the trees.

Russ

[mountainvan]

Next question. Moisture trap close to the pump or 50' away by the releaser? The vac gauge and regulator are part of the whole moisture trap gizmo I made. What do you think?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

Already did some modifications, shortened the spring, so the releaser opens at 18" so I'll see how it works. Went shopping with my wife today and happened to go by the guy I buy equipment from. So I got the releaser cause he said he won't bill me till next year. Tomorrow I'm taking it all out in the woods and hook everything up to see how it works. There's several small streams in the woods that I may put tubing into to see how the releaser works with water. What amazed me is I actually got instructions with the releaser! Got the mystery oil too.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mountainvan]

got it all hooked up today. Regulator is set at 15". worked my way around some of the bush and found spiles of the tees by the whistling sound. Got back to the pump after about an hour and it was quite warm. I have not run it as long as I did today so I'm not sure how warm the pump should get. Still have to clean out the top thing, man my brain just shut down!! I'll probably run some more diesel through to get the pump sparkling clean!!

[maplehound]

If you think it is running to hot, go to your local Dairy equpiment dealer. Ask for the high heat exchange oil for dary pumps. With the length of time we run these pumps for it would be a good idea for all of them anyhow. I have been running my 1-1/2 HP pump at 18+" for the last several years. Also I have never burned one up yet( knock on wood) Most that use them seem to burn up a couple every year.
Ron

[mountainvan]

cleaned out the reclaimer, filtered the vacuum oil, added a pint of mm oil, and the temp of the oil was 120 after about an hour(reclaimer has a thermometer on it). Says on the reclaimer that the operating temp. is 140-160 degrees. Now that it's running well it's dripping oil between the reclaimer and the pump. I hav'nt put new teflon tape on those joints so I will tomorrow morning. Had it running 16" all through the woods except one LLLLLOOOONNNNGGGG streach of 5/16 line last tap was 8".

[brookledge]

Van
I'm assuming that you have all of your spouts plugged. And if so remember that when sap is flowing what you are getting for vacuum readings now will be totally different when the sap is running. That is why it is so important to have a vac. regulator.
In the begining of the day when it is still cold your regulator will be letting alot of air in because everything is froze still or just beginning to flow and as it warms up the sap starts to flow faster which creates the need for more vacuum (CFMs) to keep the same amount of hg. in the lines. Your regulator should close to compensate.
Test should be done under peak flows to see if you are getting good vacuum transfer. Then you can determine if you have enough CFMs or need to increase mainline size or add dry line.
On the long 5/16 line you can replace it with 1/2" line. I know when I increased my mainlines years ago I removed alot of 5/16 and then used it for areas where I had a small amount of taps but more than 100 feet away from the main line
Keith

[mountainvan]

My vacuum saga continues.. Taped the joints I thought were leaking, started up the pump, 16" at the releaser, climbed up the mountain finding spiles off of the t's, and checking vac. Got to the top and had 12" vac. I think I may have missed a spile or two. Walked back down to the pump and find a small puddle of vac. oil!! Ding dang darn it!!!! Well I found a small crack in the bottom of the reclaimer. Took it apart, back to the saphouse, cleaned it up. Now here's the part someone may help. I'm planning on using jb weld on both sides of the crack. Any thoughts?

[sugaring42long]

Mountainvan, is your reclaimer mounted directly to the vacuum pump? I had this same problem until I remote mounted my reclaimers. A gas engine is even worse.

No epoxy will ever hold up as long as there is any vibration. Weld or braze and move the reclaimer.

[mountainvan]

Yep the reclaimer is right on the pump. Asked some guys around here and they all thought it would hold. Put it on yesterday and will try it out tomorrow. Hope you're wrong 42. If not I can grind off the epoxy and get it welded. Exactly what do you mean by remote mounted?

[sugaring42long]

Montainvan, you mount the reclaimer off to the side of the pump and use high temp flex hose to connect pump outlet to reclaimer inlet. I have some pumps for sale in the for sale with pictures section which show how I did it but each situation is different.

Here is a pic
http://welchsmaple.com/alamo%2075%20001.jpg

[mountainvan]

Does'nt look too hard to do. It obviously pulls the vacuum oil in through the longer tubing, eh? What type of tubing did you use for the oiler? I put the cold weld on both sides of the metal so it should be nice and strong. Big green tank the moisture trap or air filter? thanks, van

[mountainvan]

Well I took your advice 42long. Made a stand, got some fittings, had 1 1/4" hose, and hooked it up. No leaks!! Thanks for the help.