First Time Boiling on an Evaporator (Mason 2x4) - Got a Few Questions

[bigschuss]

Hello everyone...after 8 or 9 years out in the back yard with the kids I will be in my new sugar shack for the first time this March boiling on my Mason 2x4. I am a complete beginner with an evaporator and just have a few questions.

1. The arch and pan gasket that came with the evaporator...does that just get glued to the arch rail with some kind of high-temp. gasket cement?

2. I'd like to get a dial thermometer from Bascom's. They have many listed...3" and 5"....different size stems...an some that are listed as 0-50 and/or 20-240. Can somebody please tell me what those last numbers refer to?

3. I also bought a 9x9" filter tank from Bill. The filters for these kind of tanks I see on Bascom's...are they reusable?

Sorry for the very basic questions. Thanks in Advance for the help.

[filb972]

Hello, I too am very new but I got the same evaporator and filter tank from Bill. The pan gasket I got with mine had a tacky side with paper on it so I just peeled off the paper and stuck it to the arch. The thermometers are Bascoms 3" which I also got from Bill. I believe the 0-50 is for your evaporator pan as it is calibrated in boiling water and set to zero so when it reaches 7 degrees it is supposed to be "finished syrup". I think the 20-240 is for bottling such as your filter tank. The cone filters are reusable but you want a prefilter in it. From my understanding you only wash it in warm water(no detergents) and do not wring out as it will damage it.

[maple flats]

What he said, that is correct. Have fun, but caution, this IS addictive.

[BAP]

For your thermometer, check out the Maple Guys website at the top of the Maple Trader new equipment, Chris has some nice digital ones that come ready to screw into the hole in the pan or canner. They are the same or less money than the dial ones at Bascom's and easier to use. For filters, the wool or synthetic are washable, but handle gently. Use several prefilters and as they slow down, remove one, and keep doing that as needed until all your syrup is filtered. I have Bill's filter tank and I would put about 5-6 prefilters in the regular filter each time then remove one at a time as the syrup flow slowed down. I also bought a little electric warming plate to sit the filter tank on to keep the syrup warm enough to can, worked great. As far as the pan gasket, just lay it on the arch rails and set the pan on it. The weight of the pan will keep it in place.

[bigschuss]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the info. Just what I was looking for.

[steve J]

I am boiling with the same rig as you and the advice given above is good just remember to be patient with it as it takes a while before you can even draw the first pints as they are small rigs. And a big draw is a pint or a little more. I have an aluminum coffee pot that has never been used for anything but sugaring. I like to put a paper filter in that and draw into that pot let it filter thru which it does quickly than pour into the filter tank were you have a wool plus paper filters.

[bigschuss]

I am boiling with the same rig as you and the advice given above is good just remember to be patient with it as it takes a while before you can even draw the first pints as they are small rigs. And a big draw is a pint or a little more. I have an aluminum coffee pot that has never been used for anything but sugaring. I like to put a paper filter in that and draw into that pot let it filter thru which it does quickly than pour into the filter tank were you have a wool plus paper filters.

Thanks Steve. Could I ask a few more questions?

1. What are you maintaining in your pan...1.5 or 2 inches or so?
2. Are you drawing off syrup, or do you have to finish it? When I do it out in the backyard I get it close and then bring it in to the stove for finishing. THis is all new to me.
3. Do you calibrate your thermometer each day that you boil?
4. How do you know when to stop drawing off?

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to this. Just want to make sure I don't make any serious blunders.

Blair

[steve J]

I run about 3/4 of an inch and try not get deeper than one inch. As you get a feel for your unit you can work it down closer to 3/4 or a little less. I find I can only run blower at half speed or I will melt down the stack as it turns cherry red to point of being almost translucent. I have horrible time trying to regulate dial thermometer so I tend to go by sight and when I am ready to bottle I bring it up to temp and check it with hydrometer and boil as long as needed normally just a few mins . At this point I do not try to re calibrate thermometer as it has never been as accurate as it should plus unless its really cold at night I leave partial boiled syrup in pan which makes it impossible to take out thermometer unless you empty pan first. Although as stated the thermometer for me has not been accurate as to when its syrup I do watch the dial as I draw and when temp starts to drop I stop drawing. A lot of it with these little rigs is getting use to it or the feel for it. Early on I was drawing way to soon and often had to boil on and outdoor burner for an hour now its only few mins and sometimes I bring it up to temp and I am at syrup immediately. Be patient and have fun it will all come together for you.

[bigschuss]

Thanks again Steve. Much appreciated.

[bowtie]

I have same rig, need much bigger, I run mine about 1" and have a coil preheater around stack to help. do have blower ? if not I recommend one, they make a big difference. did you use arch board and fire brick it ? I can get about 15-17 gph with super dry pallet wood and blower about 1/2 speed any higher and the stack glows cherry red. once you fire it up it will probably smoke around pan a little, I had to use thicker gasket to help "seal" the pan. mason makes a great evaporator and is really helpful. 2x4 good up until about 100-125 ish taps any more and you will run into what I found out, there are not enough hours in the day to boil all the sap, good luck and by the looks of your sugar house you will probably will feel the bite and continue to add taps and look into bigger evaps and all the toys that go along with sugaring.

[bigschuss]

I have same rig, need much bigger, I run mine about 1" and have a coil preheater around stack to help. do have blower ? if not I recommend one, they make a big difference. did you use arch board and fire brick it ? I can get about 15-17 gph with super dry pallet wood and blower about 1/2 speed any higher and the stack glows cherry red. once you fire it up it will probably smoke around pan a little, I had to use thicker gasket to help "seal" the pan. mason makes a great evaporator and is really helpful. 2x4 good up until about 100-125 ish taps any more and you will run into what I found out, there are not enough hours in the day to boil all the sap, good luck and by the looks of your sugar house you will probably will feel the bite and continue to add taps and look into bigger evaps and all the toys that go along with sugaring.

Thanks bowtie. That's helpful. I didn't get a blower. Can they be added afterwards? Sounds like I should think about it.

I did put arch paper in the arch. I was out in the sugar house last night kind of getting ready and just doing a mental double check. Can I ask a few pretty basic questions?

1) The pan has 2 draw-off locations on either side...on opposite corners. I'm not really sure why? What's the purpose of this?
2) I also see that besides the 2 draw-off holes, there are 2 smaller threaded holes in the pan? What are these for?
3) My filter tank has the same...a large draw off hole, then a smaller threaded hole.

A coil pre-heather around the stack I would love to have. I went out the back wall with my stack for a few different reasons. But I might need to rethink that too to get a coil pre-heather.

Thanks bowtie.

[Pibster]

1) The two draw off's on either side are to reverse the flow of the pan to help reduce nitre build-up.
2) The small holes are for a thermometer.
3) Another thermometer port.

[blac]

The two draw off locations could be so you can spin your pan to alternate draw off to reduce the niter buildup ( not familiar with the mason design) without seeing it. The small threaded holes are for the dial thermometers, same as threaded hole in the canner.
Hope that makes sense..

[lpakiz]

And you will be using only the draw-off port that is farthest downstream. Check out your flow pattern. The other one is unused, until you switch the pan.

[NW Ohio]

Sorry this post went on after it looks like others already answered.

I don't have a Mason evap. so someone else can correct me if I am wrong... The draw off on both sides is likely so that you can switch which side you draw your syrup from. I see on his website that it looks like there is a copper line that runs the sap to the front of the pan (2x4 Hobby XL) from a preheater box. It looks like the sap (becoming syrup) travels back, up, back then up to the draw off. I suppose you have the choice to introduce sap to either side of the pan (a copper line coming to the front on both sides?). You would draw your syrup from the draw off on the opposite side of where you introduce your sap. Reversing the flow might reduce the buildup of niter on the bottom of you pan that could lead to bad things. Typically the niter will build up more as the sap becomes more concentrated into syrup near the draw off. Again I do not have one of these so I am kind of speculating.

I have one of Mason's Filter tanks like yours; the large hole (mine is on the lower left) is for the faucet, the smaller hole (slightly up and on the right) is for the thermometer. I'll bet the whole on your pan have the same purposes.

I am kind of in the same position as you, getting "better" (and more) equipment for our "hobby". I have read on hear advice to others to get the North American Maple Producers Manual (http://estore.osu-extension.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=856). You can buy it from many of the Maple Equipment Suppliers as well as from The Ohio State University (GO BUCKS!). You can get it from them in PDF format for about half price if you don't mind reading it on a screen instead of paper. I have found it really interesting and it answers a lot of questions (although some of it doesn't apply to my kind of operation, it is still interesting to see how others work).

[bigschuss]

Thanks Pibster, Blac, an lpakiz. I am going through the North American Maple Producers manual right now an I just read the part about nitre build up. So I flip the pan around an this helps to reduce it. Got it. Man, I've got a lot to learn.

Thanks for the advice and the help.

[bigschuss]

I don't have a Mason evap. so someone else can correct me if I am wrong... The draw off on both sides is likely so that you can switch which side you draw your syrup from. I see on his website that it looks like there is a copper line that runs the sap to the front of the pan (2x4 Hobby XL) from a preheater box. It looks like the sap (becoming syrup) travels back, up, back then up to the draw off. I suppose you have the choice to introduce sap to either side of the pan (a copper line coming to the front on both sides?). You would draw your syrup from the draw off on the opposite side of where you introduce your sap. Reversing the flow might reduce the buildup of niter on the bottom of you pan that could lead to bad things. Typically the niter will build up more as the sap becomes more concentrated into syrup near the draw off. Again I do not have one of these so I am kind of speculating.

I have one of Mason's Filter tanks like yours; the large hole (mine is on the lower left) is for the faucet, the smaller hole (slightly up and on the right) is for the thermometer. I'll bet the whole on your pan have the same purposes.

I am kind of in the same position as you, getting "better" (and more) equipment for our "hobby". I have read on hear advice to others to get the North American Maple Producers Manual (http://estore.osu-extension.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=856). You can buy it from many of the Maple Equipment Suppliers as well as from The Ohio State University (GO BUCKS!). You can get it from them in PDF format for about half price if you don't mind reading it on a screen instead of paper. I have found it really interesting and it answers a lot of questions (although some of it doesn't apply to my kind of operation, it is still interesting to see how others work).

Thanks NWOhio...we hit REPLY at the same time I think. I don't have the 2x4 Hobby XL, just the basic 2x4. I don't have that copper pipe. I suppose I could position the pre-heater at different ends of the pan, and thus introduce sap at either end and then draw off at different sides that way.

I had a borrowed copy of the manual that I used when I first started out in the backyard on a pit. Did that for 8 years or so. I just bought my own copy a few days ago and am going through it again.

Here's a pic of my daughter and me out back on my pit. This was great for the family for the years we did it this way...we had a blast. But man I am really looking forward to being able to boil in any weather, day or night, with a dry roof over my head and a nice sugar shack to have friends and family over.

Thanks again for the help.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bigschuss/Sugar%20Shack/P4030067.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/bigschuss/media/Sugar%20Shack/P4030067.jpg.html)

[GramaCindy]

One thing that I found helpful and more productive with the orlon filters is to make sure that you use very hot water for the rinse and rinse from the outside in….So you are pushing the niter and crud out rather than introducing it into the filter. I use about 6 prefilters first, really helps the process of getting the gunk out one layer at a time. Also, as someone else mentioned, DO NOT use a washing machine. No matter what anyone else says, please believe me. Even without soap, stuff gets into the filter that you will not be able to get out. I usually have 3 or 4 pieces of orlon at 18" square that I alternate each boil with. I have a clothesline in the house that they drip dry on. You can rinse the prefilter papers too. They are very effective.
Hello, I too am very new but I got the same evaporator and filter tank from Bill. The pan gasket I got with mine had a tacky side with paper on it so I just peeled off the paper and stuck it to the arch. The thermometers are Bascoms 3" which I also got from Bill. I believe the 0-50 is for your evaporator pan as it is calibrated in boiling water and set to zero so when it reaches 7 degrees it is supposed to be "finished syrup". I think the 20-240 is for bottling such as your filter tank. The cone filters are reusable but you want a prefilter in it. From my understanding you only wash it in warm water(no detergents) and do not wring out as it will damage it.

[bigschuss]

One thing that I found helpful and more productive with the orlon filters is to make sure that you use very hot water for the rinse and rinse from the outside in….So you are pushing the niter and crud out rather than introducing it into the filter. I use about 6 prefilters first, really helps the process of getting the gunk out one layer at a time. Also, as someone else mentioned, DO NOT use a washing machine. No matter what anyone else says, please believe me. Even without soap, stuff gets into the filter that you will not be able to get out. I usually have 3 or 4 pieces of orlon at 18" square that I alternate each boil with. I have a clothesline in the house that they drip dry on. You can rinse the prefilter papers too. They are very effective.

Thanks GramaCindy. Good advice. Can I ask you a few questions since you have the same exact evaporator as I do?

1. Does the pre-heater from Mason do a good job? Or do you haver some other rig set up?
2. How much are you typically getting at a time when you draw off?
3. Do you have the blower option?

Thanks.

[GramaCindy]

[QUOTE=bigschuss;239404]Thanks GramaCindy. Good advice. Can I ask you a few questions since you have the same exact evaporator as I do?

1. Does the pre-heater from Mason do a good job? Or do you haver some other rig set up?

I found that the preheater from Bill did not do a very good job of preheating the sap for me, and I gave it to a friend that has a flat pan and it works great for her. No divisions in her pan. I now have a continuous flow preheater from Smoky Lake


2. How much are you typically getting at a time when you draw off?

I draw off at 6.5 or so, and one thing I REALLY want to impress on you is to open you fill valve from your head tank or preheater as fast or faster than you are drawing off. I would guess that my Typical draw off is around a qt., sometimes more sometimes less

and DO REALIZE that in order to get to a draw off that you have to go through a LOT of sap first, like 100 gallons or more. To sweeten the pans, it takes a lot of evaporation.


3. Do you have the blower option?

I actually added a squirrel cage blower myself onto the back of the ashpan. It totally rocks. My first year I just used a small house fan in front of the ashpan door.87078708 The first pic is of our preheater refab, didn't work too well at all but helped minimally. The second picture is of my preheater from Smoky Lake, If you need anything else please feel free to email me @tcmooseman@gmail.com

[bstewar]

I'll give a strong recommendation for a fan. It speeds up your boil rate quite a bit. Even a fan aimed into the draft door to blow air up under the grates will work. I use a squirrel cage fan &'I got one off ebay for $35.

[steve J]

Grandmacindy How is that smokey lake preheater set up I have the one that came with my Mason 2x4 and its not great.

[bigschuss]

GramaCindy and Steve....can I ask a question about something GramaCindy wrote: "DO REALIZE that in order to get to a draw off that you have to go through a LOT of sap first, like 100 gallons or more. To sweeten the pans, it takes a lot of evaporation."

I'm confused by this? So in order to get to the point of drawing off a quart I will need to go through 100 gallons of sap. But doesn't that 100 gallons leave about 2 gallons of syrup in the pans? I'm just trying to picture this and am confused by the math, I guess.

Blair

[steve J]

yes but remember you are starting with sap that is clear and its distributed over your entire pan. As you boil it will start to stain and with clear sap entering at the right rear corner it will push the syruo slowly toward the opposite corner This takes time and it will be around 100 gallons before you have enough syrup ready to draw off. I use to get impatient and I drew off to early which meant having to spend a lot of time finishing it on an propane burner. Once you start boiling it will make more sense just be patient.

[bigschuss]

yes but remember you are starting with sap that is clear and its distributed over your entire pan. As you boil it will start to stain and with clear sap entering at the right rear corner it will push the syruo slowly toward the opposite corner This takes time and it will be around 100 gallons before you have enough syrup ready to draw off. I use to get impatient and I drew off to early which meant having to spend a lot of time finishing it on an propane burner. Once you start boiling it will make more sense just be patient.

Thanks Steve. Much appreciated.

[lpakiz]

One more thing, big schuss,
After you have boiled and boiled and boiled some more, you will think you must have syrup by now. So you fill the hydrometer cup to overflowing and drop the hydrometer in. THUNK! It hits the bottom like a rock. Guess it wasn't syrup yet, plus you stood a good chance of breaking the bulb on the bottom of the hydrometer. I advise, on your first test, to hold onto the hydrometer and lower it ALL THE WAY to the bottom. Then let go. If it floats back up a little, you are close. Clean off the syrup above the red line and lower to the red line and release. Even then, it may bob to the bottom, but not nearly as hard. Good luck.
PS. Your cup should be 1/2 inch shorter than the hydrometer for this to work well. Otherwise, put the hydrometer in the warm, empty cup and fill with a dipper. See if it floats. If it does, you can return to the standard method without fear.

[SwtWiHoneyfarm]

yes but remember you are starting with sap that is clear and its distributed over your entire pan. As you boil it will start to stain and with clear sap entering at the right rear corner it will push the syruo slowly toward the opposite corner This takes time and it will be around 100 gallons before you have enough syrup ready to draw off. I use to get impatient and I drew off to early which meant having to spend a lot of time finishing it on an propane burner. Once you start boiling it will make more sense just be patient.

So, if you are running around 10 GPH, 10 hours later you finaly draw off and now your done for the day. What do you do with the stuff in your pan? Leave it for next time?
Thanks,
Shawn

[steve J]

Well that depends if its going be real cold for me that is mid teens or colder I drain the pan into stock pots and store in basement. I get nervous if its real cold that I could freeze and damage pan. Others here may have a deferent opinion. Either way you can hold sap till next run. If I do drain it than I filter it before putting in back in pan.

[bigschuss]

Well that depends if its going be real cold for me that is mid teens or colder I drain the pan into stock pots and store in basement. I get nervous if its real cold that I could freeze and damage pan. Others here may have a deferent opinion. Either way you can hold sap till next run. If I do drain it than I filter it before putting in back in pan.

I had the same question as Shawn. I am a weekend warrior. I am trying to picture boiling for 10 hours, drawing off the single quart, and then what do I do with the sap in the pan? If there is a hypothetical 2 gallons of syrup in the almost finished sap will this save until my next weekend of boiling? Or would it be better to drain the pan and just finish it on a turkey fryer?

[steve J]

Rather you save it in the pan or in stock pots in cold storage it will save. Filter it before you put it back in pan. But in both cases the syrup is no longer separated from the clear its all blended back together. So once you start boiling and the pan is up to temp draw off several quarts of fluid and dump it back into the start of the center channel this will speed the process up of the syrup separating from the clearer sap.

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

After you start to draw your first syrup your pan will be "sweetened" as they say. If you have put 80 to 100 gallons of sap in and drawn off a quart, then there is about 1 3/4 gallons of concentrate in your pan. You leave this there until you start boiling again. The second boil will take less time to start drawing off syrup because you are starting with high sugar concentrate in your pan instead of raw sap. At the end of the season, you will be able to get that last 1 3/4 gal. of syrup out.

I boil in my driveway under a temporary shelter and i think one time I put a 100 watt light bulb inside of my arch for fear of freezing the pan. You will get some light ice on it, but the high sugar content will not freeze hard in most cases.

[eustis22]

what is ":up to temp"? boiling?

[bigschuss]

Thanks Dave and Steve. Perfect. Appreciate your advice.

Blair

[SwtWiHoneyfarm]

Peddler,
What do you use for a temporary shelter. Everything that I think of I am afraid a strong breeze would blow it over.

Shawn

[PeddlerLakeSapper]

Last year was supposed to be the last year in the driveway, but the new shack did not happen.

Anyways, we setup a section of pallet rack and hang tarps off of that. This year i'm going to use a pop up canopy and anchor it to the rack with 5 gallon buckes on the other 2 corners.

[SwtWiHoneyfarm]

Dave,
Thanks for the idea. That gave me some great ideas!

Shawn