Releaser options

[cjf12]

I just purchased a vacuum pump for a good price and I am getting 27-28" without changing oil yet. Problem being is there are little funds in maple money this year for getting a releaser, sap line check valves and all the little extras I am sure will come up. I have been contemplating making my own releaser but I am concerned about time now till I get through trial and error. Are there any options at all even if I only put it on say 50 - 100 taps just to use it as a year of learning. I have seen a mechanical releaser work (once) but how about an electric releaser. I understand the pump is expensive but what about the rest? I'm ignorant to how they work all together. Any one ever have a manual releaser you physically had to dump? I have lots of boys who would love to get out of school to go dump "daddy's" releaser.
Thanks for any and all ideas for an inexpensive vacuum system for a year or two.

[MN Jake]

I am in the same boat as you when it comes to vacuum and releasers. I would think you could modify a couple bung caps to accept the vacuum pipe and your line to the woods and use barrels. Possibly hook 2 together, then you would be good for 100 gallons before sap would enter the vac pump. The boys could temporarily shut the vac off and transfer caps to empty barrels and start over. Someone on this forum may say this is not a good idea but if you keep your eye on it all may be fine.

[lpakiz]

Jake,
I am pretty sure a regular steel barrel will collapse before much vacuum developed. Now, a heavy barrel, like a beer barrel, might work. You better have a moisture trap to shut off the vacuum if you depend on someone to be there to monitor it. If it sucks sap into the pump, you will be fixing the pump, or looking for another one.
If you make syrup for a few years, and sell some, it will become easier and easier to justify spending $$ for better equipment.

[MN Jake]

Bad idea then. Is the measurement used called or the same as "water column"?

[lpakiz]

Vacuum is measured in inches of mercury, AKA HGs . I believe one inch of vacuum is equal to 2 pounds of pressure. So 20 HG would equate to 40 psi, too much for a steel barrel.
Are you maxed out on taps at your current location? Or is there a possibility of adding more? If you can get to 400 or more, it would be worth spending $$ to get a real releaser. Many start with a Bender, but with prices at $200 or more, a $600 factory made-releaser isn't so far out of line.

[MN Jake]

Ipakiz
I see now. I have dealt with water column before with plumbers but obviously mercury is much heavier. I was merely brainstorming for cjf12. I could tap tens of thousands of trees someday which I hope I do. I will just purchase the pump and releaser though, all or nothing. I'm figuring roughly $6-7,000 to hook up 200-300 taps. Then work my way up from there. A little to much money for this year. Spent a lot of days in the last 2 months cooped up in the house due to this years cold snaps, not good on the cashflow. This season will be spent boiling and modifying the arch and pans

[MN Jake]

Ipakiz,
I see you are from Greenwood. I was just there, many family members from there. Nice area

[lpakiz]

Jake,
If you are gonna get near here again, PM me-we'll meet.
So who do you know from Greenwood? Lived here all my life-well, not yet, but so far I have.

[MN Jake]

Ipakiz,
The Gulczinski's. There's a whole bunch, stepdad of 25 years. Some of the newer married names of all the ladies escape me though.

[cjf12]

I was thinking along the line of the drums but from what I have seen they would never hold up. I could stack a few milk cans together, piggy back with the end one followed with a moisture trap to shut down the pump but I am struggling with only 3, 4 gal cans in a line. I think they will fill up to quick. Does anyone know for sure what a 55 gal barrel would hold up to under vac? Could I just regulate it down to where necessary?

[lpakiz]

Cjf12,
If no one chimes in, you could do an experiment in the shop. Regulator and gauge to see where you are at......

[markct]

A guy nearby tried a barrel for a vac tank and found it quickly went from a 300 dollar barrel to a 30 dollar lump of scrap with pretty minimal vac to it

[BreezyHill]

The barrel will collapse pretty quickly after a good sized vac starts. here is a youtube vid of a milk can modified to be a releaser. When you say limited funds what is the ball park we are talking about?
There are a lot of HM projects that will work nicely. Pony kegs are tough enough and of a size to make a small releaser. Dairy Milker pails are able to be converted to a releaser.
The list is never ending. It just depends on the budget and the location. In abuilding with power it can get fairly inexpensive pretty quick for a high efficiency unit that wont have the draw backs of a mechanical releaser.

So give me a budget, location, number of taps and cfm and level of vac we are talking and I will give you a few options.

Ben

[maple2]

a steel barrel will implode at 13" of vac. the old heavy galvinized might get you to 18"

[vtmapleman]

I know that sugaring equipment is expensive - with that said I have tried to make my own, sometimes succeed; however, most of the time I was not fully satisfied. I would take a look how long you are going to use the particular item and then weigh the cost. When you are talking vacuum I would only go with production made items...in your case would bit the bullet and buy the releaser. Since you have an oil cool pump you could make the moisture trap out of pvc pipe. There a some treads on this site on how to make one....Good Luck

[Rhino]

Years ago we made a contraption that worked as a releaser, I have alot of irrigation pipes (3" aluminum, 30 ' long) so we took one of them, drilled 4 holes in one of the ends about a foot down, put in nipples that 3/4 inch poly lines could be put onto, the end that was 1 foot above these nipples, we put on a 90 degree elbow, this end was for our vac line. Now stay with me here, kinda gets confusing. We stood the 30' irrigation pipe straight up and down and ratchet strapped it to a tree, we then had the 3/4 inch poly lines that went from our 1 1/4 mainline way up to the nipples that were now 29' up from the ground. on the bottom part of the irrigation pipe we had it sitting in a cut off 50 gal. plastic drum with a 1 1/4 pipe coming out of it 6 inches from the top of the cut off barrel. we had this barrel up just high enough that the sap would run into a 900 gal cheese vat that sat low to begin with. In the 3/4 poly lines we put one pin hole in each about a foot above where they were connected to the 1 1/4 mainline to grab a little air to lift the sap up to the top of the irrigation pipe (the top meaning a foot below the vac connection, 29'). Basically this was a sap ladder on steroids. The vac. was being drawn from the top at 30 + feet up (with the added height of the half barrel), the sap would be lifted up and go into the irrigation pipe at 29 feet up and because the vac wasn't strong enough to suck it up the last foot into the 90 degree elbow that was attatched to the pump, the weight of the sap would flow down into the half barrel and flow out the pipe into the cheese vat once it got up to that level. The bottom of your irigation pipe or pvc pipe has to be raised just a tad to let the sap run out the bottom and also you have to have sap or water to start with that covers that space or you won't get vacume. Thats why you won't want your pipe in a large tank to begin with, to much sap would be needed to start with always. This was a cheap releaser that worked good, no moving parts and not much to fail. Draw backs are you have connections 30+ feet up so make sure they are tight. Another cheap releaser idea is if you find a canister that can stand up to vac and is big enough for a well pump with a float switch, fabricate that canister with all the needed holes for your vac line and mainlines and output line from the well pump along with the wires. My buddy uses a 15 gallon stainless paint pot that was rejected from the factory that i got for nothing and i am letting him use with a well pump in it. works great also.

[cjf12]

Rhino, I had to read that a few times but believe I understand. Interesting. Breezyhill I have 1 milk can available but with amish all around another one would not be hard to get if needed. Power is available and for this year I would like to use it here at home to keep an eye on it with only 100 taps or so. If anyone has made a successful electric releaser I might give it a try. I would like to do it for less than $300 if possible seeing how I can buy a new double releaser for $800 problem being if I spend 800 on a releaser then I can't afford lines to do it anyway.

[BreezyHill]

Not a problem I will sketch out a milk pail or can design and if you have one already it will be less costly. I am in for a quick lunch and back to the mill for a bit, but will get you a sketch this pm.

[BreezyHill]

How much vacuum were you looking to run 20, 25 or 28 inches. Design varies depending on level.

[cjf12]

I know I can get close to 28" but the fact is I'm not set in any way and can regulate down with a vacuum release valve if need be.

[Rhino]

Kinda thought it would be hard to explain on paper with no visuals. Should of just ended with......sap is lifted to top of 30' pipe..........sap falls down 30' pipe to half barrel on bottom of pipe........sap flows out of barrel into large tank.

[cjf12]

No, you did a good job explaining, It just took me a little long to visualize. How did you know 30 feet was the length? 29" hg???

[Rhino]

30' is what length our irrigation pipes are. We have large gardens for our farmers markets so thats why i used one of them. Other people just used pvc joined together. A buddy of mine told me about this method and that 30' was the minimum height a person should use so sap wouldn't be pulled all the way up to the top where the vac line is attatched.

[mellondome]

30ft is an overkill. (Understanding your pipe source) 29 " is all that 29" will pull up. So I would go with a sealing container (drum) that was a few " over the vac you pull.. and make the tube long enough for twice the vac inches and then a foot or so for vac storage. So for 27" use a 30"deep drum and a pipe that is 6-7 ft tall...

Scratch all that... hg vs wc. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

[markct]

30 ft is about right since that is what vac will lift max in water column. An inch of mercury is equal to roughly a ft of water column. The only trouble i see with this is that i doubt you will get much vac to your lines once it fills up as all the vac is holding the sap up in the pipe. Just like how you lose a bit of vac after a sap ladder

[cjf12]

Not sure what happened, thought I posted this morning but now it's nowhere to be seen.

Anyhow Just checked to see what I have available, 3 surge cans but 10 old milk storage cans. I'm thinking the storage can if that will hold up to vac without collapsing. Also, what kind of pump would you all recomend that can do the job but not drain the wallet.

[Rhino]

Before we used this years ago i double checked with my buddy about why can't i just use a bigger diameter pipe ike a 10" and cut down on the length???? He pretty much told me it would suck that column of sap up and into the top vac line and into my pump. Hard to believe right? As far as lost vac we did lose some just from the pin holes at the bottoms of the 3/4 inch lift lines but i don't think holding that column of sap up the 30' pipe had any negative effects on that. It pretty much started gulping the gases from the trees, along with the sap, once the pipe was at it's maximum sap level that the vac could bring it up to. Pretty much a plugged pipe that no air could be grabbed by the vac. pump. This was a cheap/ headache free releaser that we since went to a more modern way. The biggest draw back was putting the pipe up that high. Pretty much need to use a climbing tree stand and a few people to install it.

[BreezyHill]

I rebuild used dairy pumps. I modify them to flood oil in order to use the oil as a seal for the vane. When done right they will run 28+ and the oil helps cool the unit. I sold a rebuilt delaval 73 that was pulling 27.8" for $500 but I got it for nothing. The surge belly milker and a milk pump will make a wonderful releaser when using a two position float switch from ebay. It wont have any back flow and the pump has no dead space to suck down.