Dr. Tim's study on Maple saplings

[SevenCreeksSap]

Was just reading some about Dr. Tim's study and findings regarding cutting off saplings and attaching vacuum, and think I want to try a test plot of saplings. the question I have is could this possibly work with natural vacuum using 3/16 line, with 200 ft of steep slope. I have a bunch of saplings and resprouts from when our bush was logged, before we got it. They are 150-200 ft above my sugarhouse/ tank setup. I'm thinking of removing the tops of maybe 20-25 saplings, string it all together at the top, and a single line with serious drop to a tank. I want to do a separate tank to see results.

a lot of comments regarding this study are negative that I've seen, but also by people who obviously have no knowledge of the industry, or his years of study on sap flow. I cant wait to try it, and if it works I could double my tap count. gotta sell enough syrup to get a vac system.

[Drew Pond Maple]

I hope that we can supplement our regular sugar bushes with this new technology someday.
Whether or not we use 5/16" or 3/16" or gravity or vacuum, I think that Dr.Tim and Dr Abby and others will have the best research available to benefit all producers
Thank you PMRC

[DrTimPerkins]

...the question I have is could this possibly work with natural vacuum using 3/16 line, with 200 ft of steep slope.

Won't work with 3/16" natural vacuum. There is no initial flow from these saplings to jump-start the development of vacuum.

[PerryFamily]

I personally feel that the funds used to support the sapling project would have been better spent on a large marketing campaign for Vermont Maple Syrup.
In no way am I questioning the studies at PMRC , I just feel the sapling project will lead to the industrialization of an industry deep in tradition and will lead to a large price drop.
Anyway, just one guys opinion

[Rhino]

It is a interesting new concept to making maple syrup but i am just thinking of all the extra labor and expense to keep planting maple tree transplants every year or every other year if a person does a staggered cutting/tapping practice. Then there is a issue of deer browsing and mice and rabbits chewing the bottom bark off. And then theres the insects. More labor and expense to put protectors around the transplants and also a fence up to keep deer out. Cutting grass and weeds between the trees to give the transplants the best survival rate and growth is also thrown into the mix. Round-up would be easier but then you get into the organic issues and also negative impact on the transplants. A person would have to set up irragation also to protect your investment from a drought year. I can see running lines would be alot easier but im not sure of how the cutting of the sapling and putting on the tap-cap would go as far as labor and what the expense would be for them?? It would also be a hard pill to swallow after 7 years of this and it's time to "cut tap" the saplings and we have a year like 2012. At least with mature trees we just say oh well, maybe next year. This is just my opinion, I realize for a corporation that wants to go large scale with this new concept where money and time isn't to much of a big deal, this could be appealing if the syrup price stays up, but for the average person it will be interesting how it turns out especially the profit margin after the time and expense are added up. I know some producers say, "well i don't count my time." With our operation, my brothers and i keep track of every hour/minute. If it's work for maple, we punch in and punch out. If any of you never did this, you should do it sometime. I know in our case where we never hired any employees the hours are unreal. Thats why i think this added work load with the sapling idea, you just might be better off working a minimum wage job without the headaches or gamble.

[DrTimPerkins]

I personally feel that the funds used to support the sapling project would have been better spent on a large marketing campaign for Vermont Maple Syrup.

That is not an appropriate use given the source of the research funding. Marketing funds (which is not at all what we do) for VMSMA or whatever entity must be spent for marketing. Research funds for UVM must be spent on research. Depending upon the source of funding, there is typically a lot of communication about what the goals of the project are, and the deliverables. Diverting funds from one thing to something totally different is a really bad thing.


I just feel the sapling project will lead to the industrialization of an industry deep in tradition and will lead to a large price drop.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on that. However when one looks into the history of the maple industry, you can find the same thing said about evaporators, tubing, vacuum, RO, check-valve spouts, etc. I prefer to think of this as a tool, like any other tool. Choose to use it if you want, don't use it if you don't want to. For some it'll be helpful, for others not so much.

[DrTimPerkins]

It is a interesting new concept to making maple syrup but i am just thinking of all the extra labor and expense to keep planting maple tree transplants every year or every other year if a person does a staggered cutting/tapping practice.

You are assuming that cutting the top off kills this tree. This is not at all the case. Maple saplings growing in the open will reform a new crown quite vigorously.

There are methods to reduce impacts deer browsing. We have considered all these factors. It is impossible to relate all that we have done in even a 1 hr presentation. I can certainly understand people's trepidation about this method, especially if they've not heard the full story.

8526 8527 8528 8529 8530

With a single-stemmed sapling, you need to cut 6-12 inches back each year to get beyond significant staining caused by the wound. After several years of this you would need to let the sapling "rest" for a few years to regrow. However the BETTER approach would be to encourage the formation of multi-stemmed individuals, which would allow you to cut off one stem one year, another the next, and so forth, which would allow you to continue to harvest from the same stem for a large number of years.

Now in terms of return for the labor.....think about Christmas tree plantations. Same issues there except that you can only harvest each plant once (or twice if you allow lower braches to stump sprout), and you have to shear every tree each year. These plantations are generally irrigated, fertilized, mowed, etc., but the economics work out even with only 2 harvests.....we are getting a harvest with this system for several years with about the same amount of labor input. For some activities (like cutting and capping the plants) the labor is high. However this method also reduces/eliminates the thinning activities, road-building, running miles and miles of pipeline, walking all the pipeline constantly through the season for leak-checking. Again....we've done our homework....the economic models alone took months of work.

[Tweegs]

I understand the adverse reaction some folks have to this practice, but I’m highly interested in the research.

I can’t see myself planting and maintaining acres of saplings, but I can see augmenting my existing bush with this method as a part of sugar bush management.

Those deformed and hollow trees that we cull could be allowed to stump sprout and be tapped within our lifetime. Those saplings we would normally remove in a new growth section to promote healthy crown development of other saplings in the area could also be used, at least for a few years.

With this method we could get sap from trees we otherwise wouldn’t, all the while promoting healthy development of new and perhaps some old growth woodlots alike.

Bring on the research Dr. Tim, I’m all eyes/ears.

[Rhino]

Dr. Tim, I guess i should of waited until i heard or seen about the reuse of saplings for production from year to year before i took it for granted it was a one and done situation. And that multi stems would even further a person along with fresh wood to cap. Obviously that takes out the biggest labor factor and expense that i thought was going to be the normal practice, that being transplanting new saplings year to year. Now knowing this, if i was someone who had open land to plant saplings, or a logged off woods, that maple saplings are growing back, this research would be huge to them if they wanted to get back into or get started in the maple business.

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr. Tim, I guess i should of waited until i heard or seen about the reuse of saplings for production from year to year before i took it for granted it was a one and done situation.

No problem Rhino -- no offense taken. I understand that this is a very new concept and there is a real lack of complete information for people to learn more about and understand this process. We also understand that it is very different in many ways. People's reactions to it vary considerably, but for the most part, we've been fairly happy with the response. We aren't really suggesting that people run right out and try this (there are no sap collection devices available and on instructions yet anyhow), but it is something we want folks to know we are working on, and want them to understand that it is simply another tool for maple producers that might be useful in some instances and not in others.

[mrnorthshore]

Hi Dr Tim. Can you tell me how much sap was produced pre 2" sapling? Also how do you keep the bag from being sucked to the vac line? To bad that they dont make a food grade plumbing rubber test cap, might work good for this. Thanks
Paul

[DrTimPerkins]

The average yield for standard ~2% sap sugar content saplings around 2" is ~0.073 gal syrup equivalent per tap, however we think with improved caps we can significantly increase yields. The bag (which is not your average run-of-the-mill plastic bag) was kept from being sucked down flat against the top of the sapling using a small perforated disc. Again...a caution that this is probably not the way it would look in commercially produced devices, but rather something we could build ourselves without going to the high expense of producing a mold. We have learned more in the past couple of seasons....but just can't discuss it at this time.

[SevenCreeksSap]

Dr. Tim,
I'm not sure which study if any on your PMRC site are this study and I'd like to read your methods, findings, etc, So far all I've seen is the press story, which is very interesting but doesn't tell the tale. I can really see trying to figure out a way to do this at our place due to all the regrowth sprouts from logging. I understand it needs vacuum and will have to work on that.

Is this study and description of how you did the setup on your publications page? If, and only if you can share some more of this can you post a link or pdf. My apologies if I'm out of line for asking, and understand if it's still under study before you can release much.

and as others have said,Thank You PMRC.

http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/?Page=publications.html

[DrTimPerkins]

Is this study and description of how you did the setup on your publications page?

There is nothing on our website about this, nor is there any more information out there about this other than the presentations we have done beginning in October 2013. I am sorry, but this is one of those times when sometimes it takes a while between when we start talking about some research and when it is written up and published. We've been doing work on this since the spring of 2010. The decision to start talking about it was made only a short time ago (at a pay grade far higher than mine). We are definitely considering writing a "how to" manual for this, which would be based upon what we know at this time (but we can only talk about what we know until the patent filing, March 2012)....realizing that there are still several things we'd like to investigate more. The EARLIEST I would imagine this could be done would be for the fall of 2014, but it probably won't happen until later than that. Much of the timing depends upon whether any maple equipment companies decide to license the intellectual property....but again, that isn't a decision I control.

[PATheron]

One thing Ive been wondering about with the saplings is this, I was of the understanding than a 5/16 hole stained roughly 18 inches up and down and sap wouldn't run in that stain again so you never would want to tap there but the staining seems to be less with totally cutting the tree off. What am I misunderstanding? Theron

[noreast maple]

The part that youre not tapping!!!!! you are cutting the whole top off and putting a bag of somesorts on then your line attaches to that. so you dont have a hole in youre tree you wont have as much staining because your tree is so small.

[killingworthmaple]

Dr. Tim Thank you very much for this research. This system may make it possiable for small backyard guys like me with not much land and very high land costs in the area to get in the game. My wife and I have been very interested in any info that you can talk about. The info that we are looking for the most right now is about the trees not how you are collecting the sap because if we plant trees this year we still have many years before we can "tap" them. So any more info about planting, size before tapping, spacing, pruning,would help with us making a decision. If we wait 2-5 years for all the research to be done and debated before we plant we would be a decade out. Again thank you very much.

Nathan

[DrTimPerkins]

... more info about planting, size before tapping, spacing, pruning,would help with us making a decision.

We can only tell you what we know at this time, and what we think might work well. We've been doing this only about 4 yrs, focusing mainly on the sap extraction, however we have also planted a large number of trees in that time. The problem is....they are all still pretty small (oldest has been in the ground only 2 yrs), so we don't have a lot of information about what you're asking for other than what we "think" might be the best way to do it.

[SevenCreeksSap]

There is nothing on our website about this, nor is there any more information out there about this other than the presentations we have done beginning in October 2013. I am sorry, but this is one of those times when sometimes it takes a while between when we start talking about some research and when it is written up and published.

Understood. I'll be looking forward to the rest of your findings and know it takes time. Just the idea and knowing it can be done gives me lots of brainstorms and thoughts of doing "testing" myself. Keep us posted!

[Flatlander]

Dr. Tim
I was rather intrigued with the article that was sent to me a couple of weeks ago. Here in the Midwest, where our predominate forest type in the uplands is oak/hickory, maple is a dirty word. Many foresters consider the species a weed to removed to keep the canopy open and allow sunlight to penetrate to the forest floor for good oak regen. On my farm, its a battle over keeping enough large sugar maples in certain areas to make it worth my while to try to tap and keeping the onslaught of maple saplings from taking over the entire area. Needless to say I have lots of saplings available.
We also have many major river systems in this state providing some great bottom land farm ground but many times marginal due to flooding, of course. Back in the early '90s, USDA came out with a new program entitled CREP. This program was meant to take this marginal farm ground out of production and back into natural riparian land cover. Besides getting a handsome sign up bonus, landowners get an annual rent payment. Contracts went from 15 years to permanent easement. Anyway, many of these acres have become populated with natural river bottom tree species including silver maple. I hear tell of a prof/grad student at SIU that was working on cloning a very high sugar content silver maple for landowners to plant in these areas for the sole purpose of providing a potential crop that the landowners could "harvest" legally off these acres. Syrup is one of a very few crops that would not violate the CREP contract.

So, when I saw this article, it raised quite a few questions.

The method of topping the sapling is interesting, but wouldn't drilling a 1/4" hole 90% the way through the sapling produce the same thing. Apparently the little bit of heartwood in the sapling is not of concern if you are topping the sapling. If we can vacuum sap from the far side of an 18" DBH tree than certainly you can get it from a 2" tree. I would also think trying to seal an irregular shaped topped sapling would be harder than a standard round hole. Instead of a standard tap, maybe one with a shorter length tap or maybe something alone the lines of a standard pipe saddle connection with a tie strap going around the sapling. The article did talk about stand density. 4 -5000 trees per acre is huge, 2.5' - 3' spacings. At .073 gals of syrup per sapling (doing quick math is = 2.25 gallons of sap per sapling). I envisioned as well managing multi-stemmed saplings. Can't get my head around trying to do this on flat ground though with all that tubing and little fall.

I can see where some might see this as an end to their mainstay of living. This would have the potential of opening up syrup production all through the midwest using silver maples. The onslaught of technology is scary for those of us used to doing something the same way. Just looking at my supply catalog today compared to 15 years ago is mind boggling.

I look forward to hearing more about your study and the results. Thanks again.

[Maplesapper]

5000 sapling per acre ??

The Whitetail deer will love it......one sweet natural food plot.

[sjdoyon]

Had a friend email me today about a program story he heard on NPR today about a new method of gathering sap being developed by UVM.

[SeanD]

I listened to it. It's nothing new to anyone who has been following this study. It's nice to hear maple in the news, though.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/02/02/270204651/sap-discovery-could-turn-syrup-making-upside-down?sc=17&f=1001

Sean

[Michael Greer]

This seems like some sort of industrial craziness to me. Taking one small plot as an example, I've got thirty taps on some 12" trees. There are probablt twenty or thirty young trees around 6" that may get big enough in my lifetime. There are hundreds of small trees, ranging from 1/2" up to 3" and one could cut and suck from these, but for how long? I presume that cutting the tree off kills it, so if we cut thirty of the young ones off, and then next year cut off another thirty, and so forth...in five or ten years I'll be out of little trees, and my young ones still won't be big enough to tap traditionally. I'm sure as hell not going into the woods to plant trees every year. I've got enough to do already, and besides, that's Gods work. As I look around the countryside around here, I see thousands of acres of un-tapped maple forest. If you want sap. go and get it.

[GeneralStark]

This seems like some sort of industrial craziness to me. Taking one small plot as an example, I've got thirty taps on some 12" trees. There are probablt twenty or thirty young trees around 6" that may get big enough in my lifetime. There are hundreds of small trees, ranging from 1/2" up to 3" and one could cut and suck from these, but for how long? I presume that cutting the tree off kills it, so if we cut thirty of the young ones off, and then next year cut off another thirty, and so forth...in five or ten years I'll be out of little trees, and my young ones still won't be big enough to tap traditionally. I'm sure as hell not going into the woods to plant trees every year. I've got enough to do already, and besides, that's Gods work. As I look around the countryside around here, I see thousands of acres of un-tapped maple forest. If you want sap. go and get it.

30 taps on 12" trees? wtf?

Anyway, the point of the study is not about tapping understory maples or lopping off their crowns. You are better off leaving them there or thinning to let the strong ones better compete.

In the study they planted trees in a field and coppiced them.

[GeneralStark]

I listened to it. It's nothing new to anyone who has been following this study. It's nice to hear maple in the news, though.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/02/02/270204651/sap-discovery-could-turn-syrup-making-upside-down?sc=17&f=1001

Sean

I am pretty disappointed in this report. This study is being completely misrepresented in the media and judging by the comments on the vpr site and on their facebook page, people are not getting the point. VPR should have interviewed Dr. Tim or Abby to get the real story. This is going to get out of hand I am afraid.

[lpakiz]

Micheal Greer,
You should read the whole report. In it, it tells how this system is perpetuated.
No, topping the tree does NOT kill it. In fact, it sends up more shoots, so many that you can tap that cluster indefinitely. Seems soft maples, especially, will readily respond to "topping" by sending up more shoots. You can cut a foot off the the main one each year over several years, saving several others for future topping. Each year, you re-cut one several inches shorter, to get down to good wood, just like tapping conventionally in a new spot of your big tree. You could cut one to the ground, saving others for later,,or you can rotate among several stems over the years. Very interesting concept. The report gives the whole story.
They are NOT advocating cutting down your woods and raising saplings. This is one of several different, alternative ways of making syrup in different situations, like ice storms, diseases, tornado damage, etc. or marginal land, swamps, etc.
Perhaps the two systems can co-exist, so you can develop mature trees while topping saplings as a way of thinning.
Think Christmas tree plantations, blueberry and raspberry plantations. They were once only harvested in the wild. Now look. Perhaps the first time Native Americans saw corn planted in rows, they just shook their heads....

[Revi]

I think it may be something that could be done on good land as a row crop, but if it takes over the woods we will have trouble. Maple trees provide far more than just syrup. They are the watershed for a lot of places, provide saw logs, firewood, wildlife and a number of other crops besides the syrup. Turning them into a row crop will devastate the forest and will eventually end up killing the very things we like to sugar for. Maple syrup will end up being just another product that is produced by agribusiness and it will lose it's brand. How are we any different from Mrs. Butterworth's if we are just another product of giant agriculture?

[68bird]

Thank you Dr. Tim For all your work. Despite all the negativity on this topic from a few, I think it is awesome. To think I could produce this much syrup from a small parcel of land. One question, are sugar maples the only ones you are studying, or are you looking into a faster growing varieties as well? If I missed this earlier on I apologize. Thanks again, Doug

[DrTimPerkins]

I think it may be something that could be done on good land as a row crop, but if it takes over the woods we will have trouble. Maple trees provide far more than just syrup.

We are not suggesting this be used to replace current sugarbush collection methods.

[Stamford sugarmaker]

Thanks Dr. Tim.

On the front page of today's Boston Globe-

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/health-wellness/2014/03/02/traditional-harvesting-maple-sugar-from-forests-may-give-way-tree-farms/hrgPfMmb9ahtjM17FEeqqK/story.html

Peter

[Ittiz]

I don't think it'll lead to what they think it will. It still takes years to grow those saplings. Maybe if you suck from low branches of a young tree then chop it down and replant once it grows too large and so on.

[DaveB]

I think it may be something that could be done on good land as a row crop, but if it takes over the woods we will have trouble. Maple trees provide far more than just syrup. They are the watershed for a lot of places, provide saw logs, firewood, wildlife and a number of other crops besides the syrup. Turning them into a row crop will devastate the forest and will eventually end up killing the very things we like to sugar for. Maple syrup will end up being just another product that is produced by agribusiness and it will lose it's brand. How are we any different from Mrs. Butterworth's if we are just another product of giant agriculture?

The trend has been for people to move towards foods produced closer to home and I don't think people will stop buying from their local producers. Tubing, vacuum and other systems have mechanized maple syrup production and people still look for local producers. If production does increase and maple trees are planted like Christmas trees that are harvested and replaced in cycles, perhaps we'll have other benefits like better forest preservation instead of having miles of tubing running here and here or lowering the price of maple sugar and syrup to where it can replace the majority of the artificial stuff out there.


We are not suggesting this be used to replace current sugarbush collection methods.

I know you're not suggesting that, but I think in some places this could happen. I look at areas near me with open farm land slowly becoming developed. Why wouldn't you want to have a nice row of trees planted there to keep the land open and in agriculture? That could lead to producers in those areas expanding in lieu of adding capacity in the woods.

[Ittiz]

Tim: Just wondering, because of the more rapid growth rate, would red maples be better for this method than sugar maples? A few years ago I thought about doing the same thing when I saw a freshly cut birch stump gushing sap. What made you guys think to do it?

[DrTimPerkins]

Tim: Just wondering, because of the more rapid growth rate, would red maples be better for this method than sugar maples? A few years ago I thought about doing the same thing when I saw a freshly cut birch stump gushing sap. What made you guys think to do it?

Red maples may be better suited in a couple of ways:
- faster growth
- multiple stemmed habit
- good sprouting ability
- less attractive to deer

The ideas arose from a research project we were doing to better understand how sap moves in trees under vacuum. We determined at a certain point that we should have exhausted all the liquid in the tree, but we were still getting sap, yet the wood moisture content was not going down. The only explanation was that we were pulling water out of the soil, up the stem and out the taphole. Under that scenario, the top is superfluous. To test that, we cut the top off a sapling and connected vacuum to it.

[DrTimPerkins]

I know you're not suggesting that, but I think in some places this could happen.

Yes, but it wouldn't necessarily replace existing traditional sugaring, just add to it.

[Ittiz]

The only explanation was that we were pulling water out of the soil, up the stem and out the taphole. Under that scenario, the top is superfluous. To test that, we cut the top off a sapling and connected vacuum to it.

Isn't the sugar created during the summer months and stored in the roots for the winter? Shouldn't the sugar run out, you know after a certain point be pulling nothing but water out of the stem?

[DrTimPerkins]

Isn't the sugar created during the summer months and stored in the roots for the winter? Shouldn't the sugar run out, you know after a certain point be pulling nothing but water out of the stem?

Sugars are made by the leaves during the summer. They are stored throughout the wood (branches, stem, roots), primarily as starch (insoluble form of carbohydrate). In the spring, the trees wish to mobilize this carbohydrate reserve, so they begin to convert some of the starch into sucrose (sugar). This conversion goes on for a period of time, and is stimulated by the same freeze/thaw that produces water uptake and sap exudation.

That is a long way of saying that no...the sugar won't run out real quickly....any more than it does in a normal tapped tree.

[Michael Greer]

In my area, the Boxelders, (Manitoba Maple), are a very agressive invasive plant. They reproduce like bunnies, and grow out of every crack, fence, flowerbed, and weedy edge. On old abandonned places, they make up the majority of new growth, and seem to crowd out more valuable species of trees. Cutting them in the spring is like turning on a faucett, and their regrowth is beyond amazing. This method might be the secret weapon to turn tree killing from destructive to profitable. Dr Tim, I suggest you run this test on a stand of Boxelders. If you can kill 'em, it'll be considered a success.

[KevinS]

from my perspective this is really cool!
I planted several hundred reds about a decade ago. the deer have been brutal on them so very few are single trunk real trees most are multiple trunked regrowth. my father has been on me for several years to cut them down to one trunk.. but every time i do the deer rub on the single trunk and I am right back where I was. so I have just left them alone.
I can see lopping a sucker per year and suck the heck out of them..
unless I missed something.. Thanks Doc you Rock!

[Amber Gold]

More than a few people have read the article since it's being posted about everywhere. Customers are curious about it. I'm surprised the amount of traction this has gained.

[jake22si]

I was just looking for the appropriate section to post and ask what you guys thought about this procedure when I came across this thread. I suppose its the same as raising the chickens without the feathers.

[wildlifewarrior]

I believe that this is a great way to produce sap, convert open agricultural land into a semi-wooded early successional habitat. Not only would it benefit the producer, preservation of open spaces, but also local ecology. Obviously the deer would be a concern, but nesting birds which require a semi-open area would literally flock there. Here in CT we are losing open space at a startling rate, and in my area which is slowly being converted back into forested areas from agriculture, the selection of existing sugar bushes are few, mostly the edges of fields as it is.

I can understand those larger producers which pride themselves on walking their miles of tubing, tapping thousands of trees and being experts of sugarbush maintenance being a bit flustered by this. The idea of being able to turn maple sugar into an agricultural crop doesn't change anything except supply and price, but here is the thing we need to think about. Maple sugar is thought of as better than white sugar for me tasting and for most health. So sugar producers could lower the need to source sugar from outside sources like sugar cane etc, saying local and refining the sugar would be a whole new business. Does this mean that maples would disappear from our forests? Nope, does it mean that the maple industry die? Nope, I still by local corn and tomatoes when they are in season, and there are massive producers throughout the US, so what is the real difference? We all install equipment to save time and money, so why can't we look at this as one of those things. I know my wife would be happy, with the more income coming in versus time invested and we are still so tiny.

We just need to change our mentality, this can be adopted to a wide range of applications, even urban! So why not figure out a way to make this work, it is an option, people still use buckets others tubing. Some use gravity others vacuum. No one uses vats over open fires, or wooden troughs to collect in. Sumac spouts? For get them. Progress is a good thing, as long as values are maintained by the individuals involved.

Sorry for the rant-ish post just my thoughts.

[vtgaryw]

How large a tree could this be done with? I have a 6" diameter tree near my collection tank that broke in a storm a couple of weeks ago about 8' up (taken out by a pine.) I was going to cut the remainder off, then I started thinking: can I cap this tree and pump it? I have a spare small diaphragm pump I could use.

-gary

[DrTimPerkins]

How large a tree could this be done with? I have a 6" diameter tree near my collection tank that broke in a storm a couple of weeks ago about 8' up (taken out by a pine.)

Too big. I'd tap it down fairly low to the ground and cut it out this summer.....or don't tap it and just let it recover for a while to grow back.

[Flatlander]

whats the difference between topping the sapling off completely and just tapping the sapling?

[vtgaryw]

I assumed as much. Thanks, I may just let it be and see if it recovers.

Thanks,

Gary