25 taps on 5/16 gravity

[Shaggy acres]

Hi I am new to the forum but what a fantastic resource. I have learned many new things.

I have 12 acres and it is all up hill from my living area. In the fall I identified about 70 sugars on the hill that I could tap. I have only had a dozen trees on buckets in the past. My plan is to run two 5/16 lines up the hill and hit about 20 to 25 trees per line on the way. Total length would be about 1000 ft and it is a pretty steep hill. I would appreciate any additional tips or advice from the knowledgable folks here. I have also read some of the info on the smaller line with gravity but the 5/16 was readily available.

Thank you
Mike


2012. A couple buckets, turkey fryer and lots of fun.
2013. Dozen buckets and home made evaporator. Very cool and very fun.
2014. Working on it

[Sugarmaker]

Should work well. I don't run anywhere near 1000 feet maybe 200 is the longest run for us. Let us know how it works. Remember down hill and tight!
Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

When your ready for more sap, look into using the 3/16". You'll double or triple your sap volume.

[Ryan August]

25 taps on 1000ft, that is 40ft per tap or about 4$ tube per tap. Seems like you should be able to pull together more trees in a closer area and use less tube, go look again for more trees. Just an amateur here too so just my cheapness talking

[SevenCreeksSap]

I have about the same situation with steep grade. I have run a 500 ft 5/16 in one run with 28 taps and it flowed fine. I did learn you dont want "flying T's" which is a long drop with several taps and T'd in the middle somewhere. seemed to lock up one line or the other. if you decide to run them long try to have a steep drop at the bottom for about 30-50 ft for good vacuum,andrun it tree to tree in one line with only your drops. Not sure about 3/16 havent used it yet but seems like it would maybe create natural vacuum faster.

We've since run 3/4 mainline up the hill more to control some expenses of roll after roll of 5/16 line. we still run some long laterals with 5-10 taps and seem to get good flow. If you plan to leave it up and possibly expand may consider running some main line. If you've identified 70 trees you may find more as you go.

[Shaggy acres]

Ok, This is great, Thank you all.
The bottom 300' drop has no trees and only the top 700' or so has maples, They are dotted all over an area about 600' across. I could run a larger line, say 3/4 on the bottom 300' and saddle into it at the top. I thought that long drop at the end with 5/16 would make some pretty good natural vacuum. Even the top bush area has a pretty good slope.

2012. A couple buckets, turkey fryer and lots of fun.
2013. Dozen buckets and home made evaporator. Very cool and very fun.
2014. Working on it

[Shaggy acres]

I know but more buckets wouldn't be cheap either and the slope is too steep for the wheeler with snow. I will cultivate the hill and let the smaller trees spread their wings.

[sugarsand]

I agree with the 3/16, its supposed to outrun 5/16, easy to put up and Cheaper. We put up around 130 taps to try it. If it works out the way its reported too, will be adding another 700 to800 next year.

Sugarsand

[maple flats]

While 1000' is costly for that number of taps, it sounds like you have an excellent layout for excellent results, and the tubing should last 10-15 yrs, just change the drops every 4-5 yrs.. Running 25 taps on each will work, and if you can lay it out without using as much tubing and get all 50 on one line you will likely do even better.
A friend of mine (the maple trader known as Clarkfield Farm) has a similar set up. He runs 1 line up a steep hedge row a long distance. He has 53 taps on the line and has no taps on it at the lower end (Very important, you need good drop after the lowest tap to keep natural vacuum on the lower taps). Since you have 300' at the lower end with no sugar trees that will work very well. Especially if you have at least 30' or better drop in that section. 1' of drop generats about 1" vacuum, thus you could get vacuum in the upper 20's naturally, no pump, no problems, no releaser no fuel needed. If I had that situation I'd use no vacuum pump at all. The sap will shoot out the bottom so be prepared for huge sap amounts. In your case I don't think I'd use the 3/16 tubing, you are perfect with 5/16.

[Gary R]

http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?17418-High-vacuum-in-gravity-tubing-research

Here's a lengthy thread on the 3/16. In it is a link to research done by Tim Wilmont of UV Proctor Maple Center. In the study 5/16 tubing was used, very little vacuum was achieved. He did have a limited amount of taps on the 5/16. If you had maybe 50 or so you should be able to keep the tubing full to create the vacuum.

Shaggy acres, regardless to what route you go, good luck. It's great to see more people making syrup. We're just trying to have fun at it!

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

I have a long, about 600' run on 5/16 tubing with trees along the entire length. It's the border stonewall along my long driveway, with some trees in the bush along with those along the wall. Probably 75 taps along it's length. It ran really well last year. I would like to get some gauges to see what vacuum it gets this year. However I did a side flip off a ladder a week ago Friday and fractured my hip. Standard recovery time is six weeks which puts me at the end of February. Hope I can get the lines up quickly...or that I heal a little more quickly. I think the 5/16 is perfect for such long runs as well as being what I have on hand.

[Sugarmaker]

I have a long, about 600' run on 5/16 tubing with trees along the entire length. It's the border stonewall along my long driveway, with some trees in the bush along with those along the wall. Probably 75 taps along it's length. It ran really well last year. I would like to get some gauges to see what vacuum it gets this year. However I did a side flip off a ladder a week ago Friday and fractured my hip. Standard recovery time is six weeks which puts me at the end of February. Hope I can get the lines up quickly...or that I heal a little more quickly. I think the 5/16 is perfect for such long runs as well as being what I have on hand.

VCH,
Hoping you recover quickly and get most of the maple season in too.
Regards,
Chris

[Gary R]

I would be interested to see the vacuum achieved using the 5/16. Tim Wilmonts research showed little or no vacuum on 5/16. That stream at the bottom is just sap running downhill in tubing. The tubing needs to remain full in order to create vacuum. If your gauge is reading in the high 20"'s, your getting the most you can. Measure the volume of sap collected over the season. If it's over 30 gallons per tap your doing good. I don't see much sense always adding more taps when is easier to get more from your current taps.

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

Thank you Chris. The weather has been helping keep my frustration level down, since it's been too cold to do anything in the bush. And this week doesn't look all that much better. Perhaps the rest of January and early February will stay cold.

[maplehillbros7179]

It might be worth running a little half inch mainline down the hill and run all your 5/16 lines to it and keep the tap numbers on each line down around 25 but if you don't have the money just 5/16 would work great good luck.

[tuckermtn]

we have 49 taps all on 800 ft of 5/16 tubing. Decent elevation drop - maybe 60 ft over the 800ft. we averaged 15.31 gallons of sap per tap last season. in 2011, it was over 21 gallons per tap. We are replacing the whole set-up this year in hopes of getting back up to 20 gallons per tap. Tubing was 8 years old. No 3/16 used on this run.

[Bucket Head]

I have a 5/16 line with 44 taps on it. Its about four hundred feet long and has a thirty foot drop from the top to the collection point. I put a gauge on it one day when it was running good and found it was generating a little under eight inches of vacuum. I realize that it would'nt do it everyday, and it probably would'nt register that high today as this test was done years ago with new tubing, but it generates a little bit as long as the line is full of sap.

I am very surprised to read that Dr. Wilmot had little or no vacuum on a 5/16 line.

Steve

[Shaggy acres]

Ok, thank you all for your input. I am making progress.
Stretched one wire on the bottom 100 yards of my slope. The tubing will run unobstructed straight down. Sounds like I can put up to 35 taps on each line I run up the hill. I think it is too wide to string all on one line.
My plan is to just run short drops from each tap, teed into the line. Should be just fine as long as it just keeps going down hill. Right?
Rinsed out a tank with fresh water. (It had corn syrup in it).
Any tips on running tube this weekend? Should be just hovering below freezing. I will need to slack it to install the tees, no fancy tools. The plan is to pull it tight and mark it, then slack it.

Thanks again, You guys are awesome!

[Sugarmaker]

The tip on hanging tubing this weekend. Get it done. It will soon be time to tap those maples!
Regards,
Chris

[SevenCreeksSap]

If you are running 5/16 a couple of things. You probably don't need wire unless I'm misreading and you are running mainline, and will save some work for yourself just running the 5/16 from tree to tree, around the front of one, the back of the next, snaking around them. You can pull it tight and then cut in your tees for your drops, then when done start at the bottom and pull it tight again, finally getting it as tight as you can at the last anchor tree. do this if you have a tubing tool for the tees, otherwise string it up pretty tight and mark your cut spot somehow to cut them in, add all your drops, then tighten. There are lots of threads here about homemade tubing tools, I made one for about 8 bucks.

the 5/16 can hold the sap without wire, but will sag if you dont get it pretty tight. you can side tie it in spots if needed to hold saggy spots, but side tie it,not tie up a spot with sags on both sides of it. when you start hanging it and see it full of sap you'll see the spots you need to work on.

one other thing with the 5/16 that drove me crazy for a while,especially if you have some long drops and flying T's, is that it will hold the sap with a full line until the next run pushes it out. Must be because of natural suction, back pressure, I'm not sure what to call it but its because its a closed system for the most part. you think it should drain empty every day but it doesnt. Just wait it out and let the next run push it through. when they get full and hold the sap is when you notice the sags and find where to tighten up. You don't want to leave the top end open for drainage, that will invite bacteria into your system sooner than if you have it closed on the top with a tap or by looping back around the tree with an end loop.
our whole setup is tubing trying to get natural vacuum on a pretty steep slope, and these are just things I've noticed and learned. Gotta agree with Sugarmaker on getting it up soon. We're tightening everything up this weekend and getting ready for full tappage. might do a few yard trees to watch for the runs to start.

[maplestudent]

Vermont Creation Hardwood, tuckermtn, and Bucket head:

I'm curious how much of your overall drop is at the top of your line and how much at the bottom. I could set up something similar, but most of my drop would be at the top of the line. The bottom of the line could still slope for a couple hundred feet, but at a minimal pitch. I'm looking for something to compare to.

[Shaggy acres]

I ran tubing this last weekend and it is about 1200 feet total. The last 300ft of tube drops straight and about 80ft elevation change. The top meanders back and fourth so i was able to put 30 trees on the one line. Cant wait to see how it works. I can run a second line up the north side but i dont know if i can boil that much sap with my small evap and limited time. I did notice by the end of the day Saturday it was more like work than fun! :)