lost vacuum?

[bairdswift]

I have this little dairy vacuum pump that will not build much vac. Anything tips I can try to get it to build more vac? New belt and it's tight.

[bairdswift]

84068407 pictures of pump

[lpakiz]

Any easy way to "unplumb" everything at the suction side of the pump? Then install the vacuum gauge in the suction port. You could have leaks in some of the other components hooked onto the pump.

[brookledge]

I agree with lpakiz, disconect everything and start there see what you have for vacuum dead headed. Then if your pump is low then you either have bad veins or bad seals. If you have good vacuum then start working your way out
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

If it has a vacuum regulator check that first. If it was used for milking cows that would be set for 15hg or less.

[bairdswift]

If you pop off the end cap of the vac reserve you can put your hand over the pipe that goes to the pump and there is suction just not a lot. When I got this I had to clean it up. Old timer dairy farmer said to use diesel fuel to flush pump and that work to get it going. Sat for a few months and now it won't build a lot of vac. Could it not be getting enough oil? Spins freely. No bad feeling or noises. Pump has self oiler. Is it possible the oil is to thick in my cold shed? I'm use vac oil that I got with this used system. It worked better before it Sat the last few months. At one time it had 5hp gas motor. Owner before me put that electric on it. After I took the pic I have put on a new belt and cut the power cord down to 10ft. It was 15-20ft and that did not seem to make any difference.

[nymapleguy607]

If you rotate the pump by hand can you here the vanes move out and contact the pump housing? On my delaval it will click when the vane ouches the housing, My pump has 3 vanes in it so yours should be similar. To me it sounds like the vanes aren't moving out and sealing like they should.

[Jeremy Hanna]

sounds like stuck vanes like jeff said the need to move freely if the pump has over heated the vanes get warped and will not slid in the slot from my understanding they are built for 15hg ish once you start pushing them to make more vacuum it seems like the pump heats more and need more cooling

[maple flats]

Most likely the vanes are stuck. Open the end, and pull the shaft out. Be careful, it's heavy. Then move the vanes in and out. They must free float. Clean them in Kerosene. or diesel if needed. When replacing, lightly oil the vanes first with vacuum oil. It's unlikely the oil is too thick, that would just seal better. Vac oil doesn't get too thick to work with the cold and it will warm quickly in use. If the vanes look badly warn, replace them. On the oiler, open the flow up, usually by braking off a wire in the tube. Do not clip it, just break it, clipping it will leave a flare at the clip which will hang up and not move as needed. If you get good vacuum, that pump should be good to about 20-21" vacuum, it won't keep cool enough to get more.

[BAP]

before you pull the pump apart, is that motor wired for 110V? If so, is it supposed to be 220V? The motor would run at 110V but if it is supposed to be 220V, it will NOT come up to speed which will not create much vacuum. After verifying that is correct, unbolt the end caps of the pump and pull it apart. It is not hard to do, then see if the vanes are free. If not carefully get them out and clean them and the grooves up real well. Put a liberal amount of pump oil on both the drum grooves and the vanes and see if the will mover easily in the slots. Most likely, if the guy had to run diesel thru it, then the grooves are full of sludge and not allowing the vanes to slide easily. After you get it running, you want to make sure the oiler is adjusted to put a good amount of oil to the pump. At the higher vacuum level of sugaring, they get hot and need more oil to stay running.

[bairdswift]

I took the pump apart as suggested. Everything looks fine to me.tell me what you think. When I put it back together it still did not have a lot of vac. Should this be 220v? This is the cord that came on it. Maybe the owner before never had it running on this motor after the 5hp gas quit. The part holding in the pic, dose that slide out when spinning? Is there a right way they go in?

[maple flats]

When you line the vane up with one end of the drum, is it barely short of the other? Looking at the free end, was it spinning clockwise? The voltage matters little to get vacuum, if the motor turns it at 6-700 RPM it is good. Once you get the vacuum, you then need the proper HP to keep it in that RPM area. This can be done with 120V or 240V motor, but with 240 you can get away with lighter wire because at any given horsepower you draw half the amps at 240 as you do at 120V.
Are both edges squared? Mine have an angle on one edge, that angle mates with the inside of the housing, then as the pump turns oil seals between the housing and the vane edge surface to push air out the exhaust.

[Paul VT]

I took the pump apart as suggested. Everything looks fine to me.tell me what you think. When I put it back together it still did not have a lot of vac. Should this be 220v? This is the cord that came on it. Maybe the owner before never had it running on this motor after the 5hp gas quit. The part holding in the pic, dose that slide out when spinning? Is there a right way they go in?
Is the motor turning the correct direction? I know someone that was sold a vacuum that had a brand new motor on it. But it turned the wrong direction.

[Jeremy Hanna]

did the pump work fine before the cord was shortened did

[bairdswift]

When I brought this home in fall it would only run one milking unit when it should be able to run both.after sitting till last week it will not build enough to even make one milking unit work. Cast in the pump is a arrow and that is the way the motor is spinning. I will have yo look to see of the corners are square or not. Do the pullys look like the right size? How freely should the vanes fall out? I guess next I should try cleaning them up more and getting them more slippery.before trimming the cord it was not building a lot of vac, some but still not enough to run one milking unit

[Jeremy Hanna]

not sure on the breed of pump u have but I think the 78 delaval suggested a 4" and 9" to run at 800 rpm if that helps

[BAP]

Does the motor have a plate on it giving the specifications, (i.e.. horsepower, voltage requirement, speed or rpms, 1phase or 3phase). That will help determine if something is not set up right with the motor.

[nymapleguy607]

Okay this might seem like an odd question but you said you are using the oil that came with the pump, Is that the same oil that was in there when it had kerosene in it? I would by some fresh oil and change it. If the old oil had kerosene in it it might be too thin and not sealing good against the housing, also when you put the pump back together did the housing have any type of gfasket to seal the end? I have used the RTV silicone on my 75 pump and it worked well. Also check the oil feed line, if that is plugged it might be part of the issue as well.

[bairdswift]

The plate on the motor is so worn its hard to read but ills see if I can make something out to get some type of clue. When bolting it back together it was dry, no gasket or seal seemed that's how it was when I took it apart. After that flush I cleaned everything good before filling with fresh oil. It's a possibility the oil line could be plugged but there was plenty of oil in there when I took it apart the first time. How freely should the vanes move? In the oil holder there are spung where the oil leaves. Should I remove this? What line is in, what line is out?

[maple flats]

The pump should not have a large quantity of oil IN it. Too much causes problems. The oil does not compress. You should drain the pump, then verify that the oil lines to each of the end bearings flows well (as in 1 drip every 1-4 seconds). Excess oil in the housing can stop vacuum. The oil is only for 2 things, keep the bearings lubed and make the seal between the vanes and the housing.

[BAP]

If the lettering on the plate has been stamped into it, take a marker or crayon and rub over it. Then wipe off the excess and it should leave the coloring in the grooves and make it easier to read. Sealing the end caps with a little bit of a sealer is a good idea if there is any sort of imperfections in the surfaces where they mate together. Also, check the seal on the shaft. It is critical that this is in good shape to keep vacuum loss down so that it will suck in the oil. Getting some new high quality vacuum pump oil would be a good thing to do. When used in sugaring with higher vacuum, more heat will be made in the pump, so having good quality oil is a must. I am not sure what brand pump you have, but I have seen pumps where the drum has spun on the shaft and won't spin the drum fast enough. Hopefully that hasn't happened because the drum and shaft are a press fit. Check the vanes to make sure the edges don't have any chips out of them and that the inside of the drum is smooth and not scored.

[BreezyHill]

bairdswift what is the status with the pump?

I rebuild pumps and can walk you thru this dilemma. Does this have metal or nonmetal vanes? From the pics the housing looks good as do the vanes.

Diesel is not a good product to soak vanes in if they are nonmetallic. The additives can trap water in the vane and make them swell. Thus they don't move freely under speed and will tend to make poor vacuum. There are a few tricks that can be tried to save a nonmetallic vane that is water or fuel logged. The best is to persuade the wife to let you bring it in the house and set it on a radiator for the night in paper towels. The heat will help drive out the fluids into the towels and keep the fumes contained as much as possible. In the shop you can use a heat source to warm the vane...not direct heat from a torch as this can warp the vane or set it ablaze.

From what you described it is stick vanes. One or two vanes were working and then you were down to one.

I have a source of new vanes but will need to know the dimensions of the vanes toget the correct ones. The make and model of the pump is very helpful. It is the newer delaval color.

Ben