pulling sap uphill

[bluegirl]

will a vacuum pump pull sap uphill through a 5/16 line

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

It can "lift" sap in a sap ladder a limited height depending on your vacuum level.

[bluegirl]

whats the best way to build a sap ladder

[BreezyHill]

Sap ladders work supper well provided that you follow a few basic rules.
A sap ladder made of sap tubing will pull sap straight up a distance of approximately 12" for every inch of vac. Always leave some extra room for the instance that a leak happens and limit the height of the ladder to what you are comfortable to climb a ladder and maintain. Personally I like to keep it under 20'. So this makes it so a 50' rise can be done in 3 ladders.

So how high do you need to elevate

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

whats the best way to build a sap ladder


How many taps? how high? What vacuum level can you maintain?

[bluegirl]

60 taps about four feet. do i need to inject air. not sure what vacuum level i can maintain just got the pump.

[mapleack]

Here is a video from youtube that does a good job of showing a six way star ladder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqwNaECu-wM You can have about 10 taps per vertical line in a ladder. To lift more than 60 you just add another set of six way star fittings. If your tubing system is perfectly leak free in the area served by the ladder you may need to create a tiny leak, since it's air / tree gas that does the lifting. That point has been argued many times on here before, hopefully this thread won't turn into another one. If you search for 'sap ladder' here on the trader you'll get many threads with good info. Good luck.

[bluegirl]

So i can put a ball valve by the ladder and keep a little bit of air coming in to help the sap go up the ladder

[BreezyHill]

That will be a little ladder will work fine; but at the last tap on the area a tiny brass needle valve will make it work faster. To adjust the valve at peak flow you need to attach a temporary vac gauge and slightly...ever so slightly open the valve and see at what point you get the highest vac level on the gauge. This is the point that you are getting the most sap thru the ladder and getting the best vacuum to the last tap for the best possible production.

[bluegirl]

So do i put the brass needle valve on the main line. Should i have It close to the ladder our at the other end

[BreezyHill]

I locate mine at the last lateral connection. This seems to move the sap thru the system faster. Locating at the sap ladder will drain the mains of an sap after the vacuum is shut off.
I tried this and lost a large amount of sap, so I installed a check valve only to find that it leaked, in five separate locations. So that is when I moved them to the end of the runs as it is the heights location...no sap loose this way.

When setting up the stars be sure the flow is out the bottom of the mains into the tubing from the star and into the star on top of the mains at the suction end. This is much more efficient than the opposite way.

There are no stupid questions. So just ask.

Ben

[bluegirl]

thanks for all the help

[bluegirl]

The ladders going to be 8 feet height. I have a 8 CFM
D@G Mini Vacuum Pump. do you think it will work.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

That pump is capable of 26+ inches so should have no problem with the lift. Limiting factorw will be total nuber of taps on the entire system, distance sap ladder is from the vacuum source, and tightness of your system.

[bluegirl]

The system all brand new the lines are tight no sags.The ladders about 100ft from the vacuum. Theirs going to be 45 taps on the ladder. all together theirs 250 taps.

[Wanabe1972]

If you can make sure you can get the lift in the early sun to thaw it out. My ladder is in the shade (poor planning) it is a single pipe ladder with a ball valve at to bottom. I found in my situation it was better to lose a few gallons after the vacuum shuts off at night. In the morning the ladder does not have to thaw out. I would then get sap from the entire bush going to the releaser an hour earlier.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

The system all brand new the lines are tight no sags.The ladders about 100ft from the vacuum. Theirs going to be 45 taps on the ladder. all together theirs 250 taps.

Should work well!

[maple flats]

Forget the air inlet valve, that will just consume more of you vacuum capacity. After attending a Glen Goodrich seminar in Verona this year, I'd suggest yo get a 4 way star but only have 3 spiders, cap off the other. Someone asked about ladders that sometimes have sap going up one line just to go down the next. Glen said the old formula of 10 taps/line should be changed to 15-or even 18 taps per spider for better performance. If there is a 3 way spider get those, I've only seen 4's and 6's.

[madmapler]

I have some 3 ways. They came from Bascoms I'm pretty sure. Its possible they came from Webbs though. One or the other for sure.

[BreezyHill]

Leakers will have no positive affects on a leaky system. It is only for the system that is tight and needs air injected.

[BreezyHill]

The air inject is less than a few poorly seated taps.

Backflow is typically caused by a poorly oriented star/manifold. Stars must by aligned to supply gases to the riser lines equally. Neatly tied risers have less backflow than risers that are scattered and or of different lengths. My ladders run 14 taps per riser mostly; but I am at 27+ for vac on 18' ladders.

There are so many variables that affect riser counts for ladders that it is nearly impossible to set a number.

[bluegirl]

so the riser lines should be nice an tight. I have about 45 five taps on my ladder and its ten feet high.

[BreezyHill]

If there is any chance of growth in the near future use a 6 way star, otherwise a 4 will be fine. The lines above the star will look like a bell. About 30-36" above the star I make a nice neat grouping of the lines and secure them with a zip tie. A second tie is slide to the same distance from the top star and often one or two in the middle of the risers to keep them together.
Mine reasoning is: keeps the temp of the sap more constant. These ladders are next to a brook that is a sap freezer at night. The lines over the brook freeze way before the bush. It also limits how much the sun will heat the lines in the heat of the day. The very bottom is open for full sun in the am to thaw. The ladder will thaw a head of the mains due to the size. I only run black lines for mains over and near the brook for quicker thawing. The neat group also reduces the chance of a difference in riser lengths that negatively affects the ladders efficiency.

10' is a nice ladder size. Easy to check on for leaks in the early season and fun to watch. You will find yourself mesmerized by the speeding bubbles in the lines. Kids are often fascinated by the sap rushing straight up the lines.