vacuum regulator

[bluegirl]

I am looking for a vacuum regulator. The ones bascoms have do they just slide on a piece of pvc pipe.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Why do you want a regulator? You want your vacuum as high as possible for optimum sap flow.

[cpmaple]

not trying to steal the thread but I have a regulator in my main vac line from the pump to the releaser due to the fact that I start my pump early in the am before I leave for work. Most times lines are still froze so the regulator allows the pump to get air so it don't overheat. its set at 25hg and when the lines are running it pulls around 22.5\23 this is the only reason I have one. just my 2 cents

[brookledge]

By all means you should be using a regulator. just as cpmaple said your vacuum unit can over heat if things are frozen. and I have seen people who will crack a ball valve to let in a little air, but then in the middle of the day when the sap is really flowing the vac level drops because the valve is still cracked. So unless you are going to constantly monitor it don't use a valve. There are many styles of regulators but are basicly all the same. Some are nothing more than a spring compressed valve. The tighter you tighten down on the spring the higher the vacuum. I also have a weight on a pendulum hooked to a ball style. The further the weight is slid away the higher the vac. I'm sure there might be other styles but they can certainly save a pump from overheating and seizing.
Keith

[Bruce L]

How high would you safely run your vacuum? I have an old De Laval 76 with oil flood that ran all last season at 27+" mercury at the releaser, 300 ' from the pump, tended to really smoke, sometimes motor would trip on warmer days, so I will be putting a regulator on it this year, but how high can I safely strive for?

[farmall h]

If I recall :rolleyes: ....sustainable vacuum on planet earth can only reach 28Hg. Correct me if I am wrong Dr. Tim.
Yes you need a vacuum regulator in order to bring air into the vacuum pump (ie: if the lines are frozen not far from the releaser) Although squirrels seem to be mother nature's little vacuum regulators ! :lol:

[BAP]

CDL makes a good simple PVC regulator. Bruce L, as far as your De Laval smoking, at high temps they will do that. I used to set a cheap window box fan next to them blowing on high to help keep the pump cooler which would help keep them from tripping out.

[BreezyHill]

If the pump is smoking that is really bad as you are in the 285 degree area with the pump. The exhausted will allow oil vapor to exit the pump. This is part of how the vac oil cools the pump. Good oil will vaporize at 160.
If a pump has been correctly modified for high vacuum you can hit a little past 28. Maximum vacuum on earth will only allow 29.92"

For sum pumps a regulator is advisable, while Thompson is correct you will get more sap at higher numbers; it is not worth damaging a pump.

I run no regulator but I have modified my pump so that when it maxes out on vac it will pull more oil to cool the housing and vanes. I run a special blend of oils to aid the pump in maximizing vacuum while allowing for the best cooling. Oil reclaimers are a great tool when running high vac. What size and setting on the regulator are you needing. I have several used and a couple new surge regulators.

[Bruce L]

Breezyhill, I am thinking regulator at maybe 25", that should give some relief to the pump? I am installing a 20" box fan in front of the pump to help cool, will take pictures of the pump and oil flood when it warms up just a tad. Not sure what you mean by what size regulator?

[maple flats]

A few years ago I used a Surge regulator to protect my vacuum tank, but it was problematic, and kept losing vacuum in operation. I'd set it for 19", and go check for leaks. Check back later and it was only at 12-14". I then swapped that for 3 industrial regulators that were only 3/4" each. I bought a 3/4" cross, put 1 regulator on each of 3 openings and a nipple on the 4th that connected to the 2" vacuum line at a 2" Tee. That arrangement has worked without issue for about 5 years. Now both of my pumps have the same set up, the first one for 5 seasons and the second one for 3 seasons. I like the dependability. The ones I use were $19.99 each and are made of brass. My second one is set at 17" because the double belts slip when I go to 18". I hope next year to get a real maple vacuum rather than the old dairy pumps so I can run at 25" plus on the one bush. My other bush would need a releaser to go above the 19" or I could implode the tank.

[BreezyHill]

I was meaning level of vacuum. 20" is easy for most pumps, 22 is work...to get to 25 is a bunch more and to get to 28+ is hard work.

consider a small squirrel cage fan if you can find one on like ebay. it is easier to direct all the air of the fan across the housing to cool where a box fan will only put a small portion across the pump.

If using a gas motor, hook up an alternator and go to the junk yard and get a truck or car heater fan. They put out some serious cfms that will keep a pumps temp in check.

I dont bother with a regulator...but I have a wife that will watch the temp if I am on the road when the temp will get to making a run. if I know the temp will be good I just plug in the pump and let her run. The vac seems to help move the melting sap thru the lines and thaw a little quicker. I have a brook that freezes my mains before the bush stops so my lines are usually full. This season will be a trial of a double dry line on one main. It freezes before the ladder mains so I figure it is a good spot to see if it will help.

[Joust7.1]

Where might one find a brass regulator like that for 19.99? I want to add that to my system for this season. The cracked valve seemed to work well for me last season, but it took a while to get it exactly where I wanted it. If it got to high, my pump and motor definitely felt it by producing more heat so I would have to adjust it a couple times during start up. I have a couple dairy regulators, but I don't see how those are adjustable to more than about 15".
A few years ago I used a Surge regulator to protect my vacuum tank, but it was problematic, and kept losing vacuum in operation. I'd set it for 19", and go check for leaks. Check back later and it was only at 12-14". I then swapped that for 3 industrial regulators that were only 3/4" each. I bought a 3/4" cross, put 1 regulator on each of 3 openings and a nipple on the 4th that connected to the 2" vacuum line at a 2" Tee. That arrangement has worked without issue for about 5 years. Now both of my pumps have the same set up, the first one for 5 seasons and the second one for 3 seasons. I like the dependability. The ones I use were $19.99 each and are made of brass. My second one is set at 17" because the double belts slip when I go to 18". I hope next year to get a real maple vacuum rather than the old dairy pumps so I can run at 25" plus on the one bush. My other bush would need a releaser to go above the 19" or I could implode the tank.

[saekeaton64]

There was an older thread about vacuum regulators and Dennis H. posted his design which I think is really simple and easy the build.

Here is a link to the thread:
http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?10978-vacuum-regulator&highlight=vacuum+regulator

The brass check valve can be purchased from any big box store:
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-well-tanks/accessories/water-source-3-4-brass-check-valve/p-1392205-c-8672.htm

8713
The check valve is installed backwards, so that the pull of the vacuum pump will suck the stopper in. The compression spring is adjusted with the wing nut to regulate the amount of suction. The less compression on the spring the lower the vacuum level, the more the spring is compressed the higher the vacuum level.

[BreezyHill]

Depends on the style of dairy regulator. Most use weights. Add weights to get to a higher vacuum level. The older surge units will take to weight kits to hit 25+.

[BreezyHill]

Depends on the style of dairy regulator. Most use weights. Add weights to get to a higher vacuum level. The older surge units will take to weight kits to hit 25+.

[Bruce L]

Will a PVC check valve do the trick? They are much cheaper than the brass

[BreezyHill]

Brass is worth the money as it will provide the tubing with the most vacuum from the pump.
A pvc check will have a smaller orifice and will have to work against the spring to provide vacuum to the releaser and the tubing.

[saekeaton64]

I would think you could easily use a PVC check valve. It just needs to be the spring and plunger style and not the flapper type.

[BreezyHill]

seakeaton64,
I am curious why you would want a spring loaded valve over a swing style?

The spring style is so limiting. When pulling vacuum the pump has to over come the spring. Then as you are increasing the vacuum it becomes harder yet to force open the spring due to the lack of air volume that is left to draw from the releaser. I was shipped one by accident last season and when the pump was hitting 28-29' you could hear the valve clashing against the seat due to the lack of air flow. I one is only running 18-20" the reduction will not be so obvious, but will be as detrimental to the transfer of vacuum if not more so as you are trying to move all the air that is leaked into the system by the regulator.

To maintain a lower vacuum you have to leak a fairly large amount of air into the system for the pump to move; unless you are using a VFD. if you are using a VFD then a regulator would not be needed except as a safety release in the event the VFD over speeds the pump.

Where a brass swing valve has a small gate that will swing open with the least amount of force and will close on a lack of flow. back flow will force the gate into a locked close position and block movement or flow until the pump runs again.

Swing checks are full flow and a pvc check is only 20% or less opening. This small opening is a real reducer of vacuum transfer to the releaser.

Take a section of 1" mains and force all the air flow into two, 5/16 sap tubing for 1/2" in length and then back to the 1" main again. This is what you are essentially doing with a spring style valve. The cfm loss on a spring unit is huge when compared to a swing valve.

The location of the valve is also rather critical. The closest to the pump is best as the effort and time spent leveling the pump is used on the correct orientation of the check valve so it is able to make a perfect closure when vacuum is lost. locating a pvc valve with in a foot or less of a pump can cause warping of the plastic due to the heat transfer.

When building a vacuum system one must always look to supply the design that will have the least amount of restrictions to get the most cfms to the bush and the tap hole. To put a choke point within inches of the pump is counter productive to this goal. So reducing 90 degree elbows, undersized pipe, any lengthy unnecessary runs of pipe, undersized water traps, are all items limiting your reaching your goal.

[saekeaton64]

Inside the system its self I agree with using the flapper style check valves, as you said there is less resistance to open the valve which will allow for better vacuum transfer.
The spring and plunger style I mentioned is just for the vacuum regulator ( this allows air to enter into the system is the event of a total freeze up, eliminating a dead head at the pump to save it from overheating in this situation). The main reason for the spring and plunger style is that it already has a threaded hole inside to easily allow for the adaption shown in my last picture.

[Bruce L]

Picked up a brass check valve at Lowes, but how do you adjust the tension, almost seems like the nut is riveted in place, doesn't seem to want to turn?

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/659647/659647940042lg.jpg

[oneoldsap]

If there's any way you can run water onto your pump housing , (doesn't take a lot) we used a 5/16" piece of tubing . you'll be amazed what an effect that water has . 27" out of a dairy pump is really horsing it , without any cooling . I'd put a regulator and some water to it , at like 25" . Your pump will stop smoking , and run more efficiently !
Mike

[Joust7.1]

Based on the one that I just installed: one end has a fixed nut. It appears to be cast on to the bottom of the actual valve unit. On the other end you should find a stainless nut (mine was a self locking style). I removed that and added a short piece of stainless coupler to mount the screw that you use for the adjustment. Remember that the body will be mounted so as to open the valve when the vacuum is on and the fixed nut is on the inbound side.

Here is a picture of the one that I put together. I thought the one with the inlet and outlet port on the side might be a simple way to add a vacuum gauge. It doesn't read very accurately as it is right next to the air flow, so I wouldn't recommend it. Either way it saved me a couple bucks over the one without ports.

9274


Picked up a brass check valve at Lowes, but how do you adjust the tension, almost seems like the nut is riveted in place, doesn't seem to want to turn?

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/659647/659647940042lg.jpg

[Tappy Sap Master]

Joust7.1:
I bought one of those checkvalves from lowes & i went everywhere looking for a coupler to connect the bolt to the valve. I found out that the original size bolt was in between a 1/4 10 & metric which is an old dye setup. So i gave up,, returned it, and went with a gate valve in line. Where did you get your hardware?

[markct]

On mine i have a ring and removed the spring just has a cup full of weights hanging from it which is better since a weight is constant load not progressive loading

[Joust7.1]

Joust7.1:
I bought one of those checkvalves from lowes & i went everywhere looking for a coupler to connect the bolt to the valve. I found out that the original size bolt was in between a 1/4 10 & metric which is an old dye setup. So i gave up,, returned it, and went with a gate valve in line. Where did you get your hardware?

Parts came from a local Ace Hardware and are Hillman?. Don't remember the brand of check valve. I like the idea of the weights, however mine ran all night and seems to be keeping steady control so far.