5/16 tubing question

[Ryan August]

Ok, so I have a couple of different 5/16 lines going, some with 7+/- taps and then I have one with 17-18 taps currently with good slope. Thought I would try both, the more traditional lower number and then some with higher number of taps as has been being talked about on the site. Question on the higher number set up. The last tape is about 150ft from where I want to collect, with more slope, likely 10-15 feet more drop. How to get the sap from last tap to collection site. Run a ½ inch main or continue with 5/16? Also I can put a few more taps in to this line but will be in groups of 3-5 taps then joining in. I can not put them in sequence. Is this OK to do or should I stick to being “in-line”. I can also tie in another 5-6 taps 50 feet or so prior to my collection site. Should I just run it the additions 50feet to the collection site, tie into ½ inch or 5/16.

(ok so i typed this then tried to upload diagram and could not, but I will leave it for those with imaginations) The diagram is as follows. The black line is current 5/16 with red dots being taps. Blue lines lead off to 3-5 more taps each as area of potential expansion this year if I get good response to my questions. Yellow area is an area with a crap load more taps, probably equal to or greater than what I have on this line already. If I wanted to access these, maine line?? 5/16?? I still want same collections site. This area has less slope but still some slope.

I am not necessary looking for more taps, just trying to make collection easier. This year plan is 50 on tubing and 30-50 buckets and pails. If I can eliminate pails and do just tubing with less collections sites, the better.

Appreciate the feedback.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I think I am seeing what you are talking about. Hard to tell without the diagram. But I would suggest using a mainline of 3/4 or 1/2 inch. Whatever you have available and run it out part way of the 150'. You want that slope in 5/16. But you don't want a lot of y's or t's of other 5/16 lines with 3-5 taps on them going into that line either. Get your mainline out far enough to still have good slope of all lines leading into it, while keeping the distance of each to the mainline at a reasonable 50' or less distance. This way you can have one collection site and get all the taps. I am not sure you will achieve the vacuum level achieved in 3/16 tubing, but so long as you have good slope leading from the last tree on your 5/16 to the main line you will get some vacuum I would think. Especially on heavy flow days.

Ben

[Maplesapper]

I'd stick with 5/16th the whole way.
The recent VMU chat on 3/16th had 75 taps.
Appears the theory is keep the more sap, the weight, the greater the slope, the greater the vacuum effect generated by the sap progressing down the line.
Increasing diameter will decrease the amount of vacuum.
Article also went on to discourage the use of T's and Y's wherever possible.
Good luck.

[SevenCreeksSap]

If I'm reading it right and you can run it with some slope, sounds like you have enough taps to run a 3/4 mainline with 5/16 laterals picking up as many as you can on each lateral. Might have to play with the slope and arrangement of running the laterals.Another option is just 5/16 to each grouping of taps, with as many on each as you can, each draining into your collection point. The 5/16 laterals should be separate though, I've tried "flying T's" and somehow it seems to lock one side or the other of the "T" up and dont get as good flow. you can do a bunch of taps per lateral. 25? 30? I have a few with 18to 20 and they flow good into a mainline. it is a bit of investment but way easier than buckets up the hill.

[Vermont Creation Hardwood]

Go with the 5/16. I've got 600' of 5/16 with T's and taps all along it. The inside diameter is greater than the 3/16 some are using. Going any larger will lose much potential for gravity vacuum.

[BreezyHill]

Ryan,
Lets do some simple math for a moment. 5/16 is $51/ 500' or .102 / ft. 3/4" is $.186 for blue and $.165 for black.

So for the cost of running two 5/16 you could run a 3/4" main and have plenty of capacity for now and expansion.

2% is the least slope I like to run. Flatter and you will run into problems of ice melting slower and lines freeze faster due to the lack of energy in the flowing sap.

Personally, I would run the main and laterals off the main to get more taps and forget the buckets. This is where kicking the bucket is a good thing!

I have a section we have not tapped in over 20 years as it would be buckets or a new ladder. It will be tapped in the next season or two just because it is right on the road and people love to set and watch a ladder work. Hate to see those nice big trees just setting there thou.

I recommend staying away from 1/2" mains they are a hassle and you will want to grow to 3/4" in the future so start with 3/4" and eliminate the extra replacement parts and it is hard to saddle 1/2". It can be done but though, and you will need patents to get a good seal on the mains.

Remember to set up your lines for vacuum in the future. You will love the results. Send me a pm and I will tell you the pump you want to look for in the old dairy farms around you.

Good Luck!
Ben

[lpakiz]

I thought Ryan was asking about getting natural vacuum from this set-up. If so, there is no place for anything bigger than 5/16. Maybe as small as 3/16.
I think you have great potential for a natural vacuum system. The farther the vertical drop after the last tap, the more weight will be in your line, pulling on the sap above. If you use 1/2 or 3/4, you will have no natural vac at all.
The litmus test for capacity is to pull your bottom tap on a hard flowing day. If sap squirts out, there is back-pressure-bad. If it still has vacuum, plug the tap back in, you are golden.
Add further taps on a separate, even parallel, line so you do not compromise the good vacuum you have in the first arrangement.
As said above, for mechanical vacuum pump and releaser, this is all wrong. Then, 3/4 inch mainlines, saddles and short laterals with 3-5 taps each.

[BreezyHill]

My bad...when I saw the words main and 1/2" I knew it wasn't for gravity vacuum. Carry on men!

[Ryan August]

all good info, thanks. breezyhill's info is useful also. I have been looking at the area I got and have been thinking about the main line. Before doing this, I want to do some "forest management" and not to have to worry about dropping trees on lines. However, I thought I would do forest management last year. With a portable mill coming in, I hope this summer will be successful on cleaning things up. thanks

[cpmaple]

from trial and error I've found that 5/16 with 10 to 15 taps on it runs well for me. from there it goes into a 1/2" mainline and on down to my 55 gallon tank. Altogether on that line there is 37 taps and on most day by 230pm that tank will be within a few inches of the top. So I have gone ahead and ran more mains to pick up all 150 taps on gravity to one collection point so I can get away from buckets that eat up to much of my time that is needed boiling just my two cents