Just tapped half my trees

[jake22si]

Decided to throw some taps in, only about 15 or so. I started around this time last year and had my best runs early. Trees seem to dry up later in the season for me and its not because I tap early, I tested on some untapped trees. I will probably put the other 15 in tomorrow only because I haven't cleaned them yet.

[optionguru]

It's been 1/2 an hour. I'm dying to know????

[red maples]

Too early man!!! I made 1/2 my syrup in the last 2 weeks last year compared to 1/2 in the first 4 weeks!!! I am sure the sap is running. now. no good freeze ups for a few days though.

[morningstarfarm]

Wow and I thought I was bad...keep us posted...good luck

[jake22si]

Wont know until late morning how I made out.

[Super Sapper]

If you are cleaning and reusing old taps your trees will dry up sooner. That may be why your better runs wre early. Research has shown that you can not effectively clean the taps. The drop in sap production comes later in the season as the holes dry up sooner do to being seeded with bacteria from the old taps. At about $.15 apiece for taps it doesn't pay to try and clean the old ones.

[MJFlores]

That's interesting to know. What about the metal taps? I soak mine in bleach at the end of season, and then again before I use them. Soap and rinse real good afterwards and then in the trees they go. Still no good? I've only been at it a few years but did notice after several weeks things seemed to slow down drastically, but then again temps were staying in the 40's even at night.

[shane hickey]

That's interesting to know. What about the metal taps? I soak mine in bleach at the end of season, and then again before I use them. Soap and rinse real good afterwards and then in the trees they go. Still no good? I've only been at it a few years but did notice after several weeks things seemed to slow down drastically, but then again temps were staying in the 40's even at night.that's about the best thing to do for metal the plastic tubing spiles are expendable. But no one could afford to buy new soul spiles every year like plastic. I have always boiled mine with water and alcohol. Seems to work but I also always tap the buckets last.

[jake22si]

If you are cleaning and reusing old taps your trees will dry up sooner. That may be why your better runs wre early. Research has shown that you can not effectively clean the taps. The drop in sap production comes later in the season as the holes dry up sooner do to being seeded with bacteria from the old taps. At about $.15 apiece for taps it doesn't pay to try and clean the old ones.
I use metal taps so that is why I clean them and reuse. My trees just weren't running later in the season, I tried tapping into some untapped trees so the bacteria thing was not a factor. I think the wind played a big part.

[shane hickey]

Yeah everything plays apart of why sap runs or doesnt

[Super Sapper]

I'm giong off the research that the good Dr. Tim gave at a presentation. The graphs showed good sap flow early in the season but dropped off dramatically later on compared to new spouts. They tested new spouts against plastic and metal used spouts that had been cleaned. Bacteria for spores or cysts when stressed (drying out) and normal cleaning practices have a hard time killing them. The extra sap the first year will more than offset the costs of the plastic taps.

[GeneralStark]

You can't "clean" a spout. You can try but no matter what you do you can not kill all the bacteria regardless of the material. These are microscopic critters that have evolved over millions of years to become extremely resilient. All materials have microscopic crevices that these bacteria can hide and survive in. This is why the medical industry has shifted towards one use disposable materials in most cases.

Science has taught us many things, and one is that these organisms are wicked tough. The only way to get the most out of your taphole is to use a new spout every year. Sure, weather is a factor, but we can't control that.

The proof is in the pudding and I would suggest trying a few .17$ plastic seasonal spouts and compare them to your "washed" spouts. You will see a dramatic difference in sap produced.

[jake22si]

Got about 1 gallon per tap so far but that was in 3 days time

[jake22si]

You can't "clean" a spout. You can try but no matter what you do you can not kill all the bacteria regardless of the material. These are microscopic critters that have evolved over millions of years to become extremely resilient. All materials have microscopic crevices that these bacteria can hide and survive in. This is why the medical industry has shifted towards one use disposable materials in most cases.

Science has taught us many things, and one is that these organisms are wicked tough. The only way to get the most out of your taphole is to use a new spout every year. Sure, weather is a factor, but we can't control that.

The proof is in the pudding and I would suggest trying a few .17$ plastic seasonal spouts and compare them to your "washed" spouts. You will see a dramatic difference in sap produced.
This may be true, so why wouldn't the new spouts also have a bacteria on them. It's everywhere and I'm sure most companies that make spouts are not "clean" from bacteria in any way.

[red maples]

There might be some bacteria on them but its basically on the surface. Its new plastic. or new metal and you can't see it with the naked eye but all that stuff is usally very porous. There is no way to get every part of the spout clean.

I would think the best way to get the metal as clean as possible is to wash scrub each hole then bake at a high temp and let them cool in the oven for several hours with the door cracked then using gloves place then into a new zip lock bag. Now that might be good for metal and for a small producer say under 100 taps all buckets with metal taps. but do that for 500 or even 250 taps impossible as they are usualy mostly on vacuum and you get everything to plastic at that point.

But the research shows that you will pay for new spouts and then some by the amount for sap you will get from new ones each year.

[happy thoughts]

This may be true, so why wouldn't the new spouts also have a bacteria on them. It's everywhere and I'm sure most companies that make spouts are not "clean" from bacteria in any way.

You're right. New spouts probably do have some bacteria and yeasts on them but not nearly as much as a used spout. New spouts are clean, not sterile. But that said, a new spout is not likely to have much bacteria inside the opening where sap flows.

In a used spout that opening is likely to be covered with a biofilm from previous years' microbial growth. Biofilm is hard to dislodge and remove completely especially inside a small diameter opening as in a spile. Microbial spores in large numbers are likely to be found there. Those spores can remain viable for long periods of time, even years, and can be very difficult to kill, requiring high temps that are not possible outside of an autoclave.