Length of laterals on steep slope

[madmapler]

I'm running laterals on a very steep slope(75% + -).Because of terrain issues my mains in one section are about 200+' apart. I've been running no more than 5 taps per lateral and I was thinking of wyeing off the lower main with another main to shorten the distance mostly because it will be cheaper than running a bunch of 5 tap laterals 200'. My question is this. Could I run more taps per lateral on such a steep slope and maintain high vacuum levels due to gravity induced vacuum? Whats the rule of thumb on this. I have clumps of trees where I'll have my 5 taps and have to run 180' to the main the way it stands. Thanks for any help.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Sean - Definitely. Bruce

http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/4046/1/FLS-014.pdf

[madmapler]

Interesting article Bruce. Thanks for posting. From what I gathered though, I am better off forgetting about any advantage from natural vacuum because the volume coming from 5 or even 10 taps would'nt create a significant column of sap in the line on that steep of a slope. Thats just my take on it though. I'm still not that clear on whether natural vacuum can assist pumped vacuum to the degree that more taps can be added to a lateral.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Right, they got results of higher natural vacuum levels but lower sap production from laterals with high numbers of taps on steeper slopes. Plus many of these studies are flawed because they don't use a bucket tap as the control. My comment to your issue, now that I understand that you are actually rigging a vacuum system and not gravity, is vacuum does not transfer well in tubing, particularly if there is a lot of sap in the tubing. Trying to achieve natural vacuum will be counter productive. Thus the short and strive for five edict will be the best solution in your application. Wish I could find maples on such a slope!

[madmapler]

Its a great south eastern slope and it should produce real well when its all done but man is it a pain in the butt to run lines on. I was able to haul some supplies up with a dozer to one section but the majority is going up on my back. Up and down all day long. I actually have to use the laterals as a rope to rappel in parts of it. I'm heading back down now to run some extra mains in the wide areas. I'm dreading hauling that spool of wire again though. Thanks.

[sapman]

I have a similar situation, but only for about 25taps. Instead of another main, I'm doing long lats with only 2-3 taps to try to keep the sap/vacuum ratio more favorable.

[steve J]

I would seriously look at running 3/16 line on that slope go into the arkives on here about the study done at Proctor Research on 3/16 lines as the class I went to yesterday they were talking about getting as much as 30 gal. of sap per tap and they had run lines I believe as long as 300 feet with this set up.

[TunbridgeDave]

I know exactly what you're going through. We have many places just like that where you could slide down 50 feet by making a wrong step. We strive for five as well but many of ours are on steep side hills with more than that. None of our lines have more than 10 on them, but they go as much as 150 feet. My feeling is, if there is no other way to get them, run the long lines. You'll get more sap than not tapping them at all. One 500' roll of tubing is paid for by making 1 gal of syrup. I checked the vacuum on some of the longest lines (we use leader 30p btw) and we still get 20" or more when it's 24" at the main. Our tubing system is nowhere near perfect and we got .52 gal of syrup per tap.

[madmapler]

Steve j- I'm very interested in 3/16 lines for another slope I'll be working. It is the way to go in places but here I'm running a vacuum pump and running my lines accordingly. Dave- Those vac. numbers are encouraging. I have a few toward the top of the hill with more than 5 as well but the area I'm working in now has a relatively large tap density so I bit the bullet and started to run an extra line yesterday. I've noticed on this slope that the crowns tend to be fuller than the avg. woods. I'm reasonably sure that this is due to what I termed "the grandstand effect" where the exceptionally steep slope exposes the tree tops to more sunlight. Have you or anyone else noticed this? I may start a thread on this subject. Thanks.

[GeneralStark]

Have definitely seen large crowns on steep slopes.

[sjdoyon]

We just ran laterals for similar slope for some very large sugar maples. Had nearly 300 taps and we normally strive for five but with the slope and distance, we have some laterals with 10 taps and a little more. Sometimes you have to do the best with what you have. Ended up using a lot of tubing though.



I'm running laterals on a very steep slope(75% + -).Because of terrain issues my mains in one section are about 200+' apart. I've been running no more than 5 taps per lateral and I was thinking of wyeing off the lower main with another main to shorten the distance mostly because it will be cheaper than running a bunch of 5 tap laterals 200'. My question is this. Could I run more taps per lateral on such a steep slope and maintain high vacuum levels due to gravity induced vacuum? Whats the rule of thumb on this. I have clumps of trees where I'll have my 5 taps and have to run 180' to the main the way it stands. Thanks for any help.

[madmapler]

We just ran laterals for similar slope for some very large sugar maples..

The trees I'm working with are large also (majority 14" to 24"). The reason being that its too difficult to harvest the timber on such a steep,ledgey slope. They just left them.

[BAP]

Steve j- I'm very interested in 3/16 lines for another slope I'll be working. It is the way to go in places but here I'm running a vacuum pump and running my lines accordingly. Dave- Those vac. numbers are encouraging. I have a few toward the top of the hill with more than 5 as well but the area I'm working in now has a relatively large tap density so I bit the bullet and started to run an extra line yesterday. I've noticed on this slope that the crowns tend to be fuller than the avg. woods. I'm reasonably sure that this is due to what I termed "the grandstand effect" where the exceptionally steep slope exposes the tree tops to more sunlight. Have you or anyone else noticed this? I may start a thread on this subject. Thanks.
On steep hills with maples, you will see the bigger tops for the reason you listed. I have seen many lots around here like that and some of the best running trees are on the steepest, hardest to climb hills. Basicly it seems to come down to, "If it is easy, it isn't the best" with trees.