BB4 and Lapierre hobby releaser

[tcross]

Just curious! anyone here run a BB4 with a hobby releaser! I had my bender glass jar crack on me last weekend (someone forgot to put the cotter pin in the bottom before putting the float in... not me!). I couldn't find a replacement right away (I'm not very patient) and didn't want to be stranded. got a good enough deal on the Lapierre hobby releaser from the local dealer (the updated version) so I couldn't' turn it down! i'll only have 150 taps on it this year, but i'll turn that into roughly 350 (hopefully more) next year! i'll probably max out with about 450 on it! I know the last hobby releasers had trouble when the temps dropped.. .so I'm thinking i'll throw a heat lamp next to it and turn it on when it gets cold out?! just curious to see if anyone here uses the same set up and how it worked/works for them?

[Mike R.]

I have had no issues with my releaser freezing. Its the updated hobby. Mine is set up out of the elements and has worked flawlessly. I wouldn't worry about it freezing as long as all the sap is drained out of it. I was getting about 27" of vacuum on mine.

[grumpy]

that was my first set-up exactly, although with the old hobby releaser, not the updated one. I had 300 taps on it with anywhere between 22-24" of vac. it'll work good for you, you just need to pay attention to it like anything else I suppose. on a good run at 23" of vac the releaser seemed to have a hard time keeping up (the upper manifold would fill up faster then it would release the bottom jar) I know they say its good for 500 taps, but I wouldn't trust it. idk if others share the same thought or not. just my conclusion

[red maples]

last year was my last year with a bb2 and a hobby, I would say they are good for about 400 taps I think 500 is just too much on a really strong run.

[BreezyHill]

Tcross, a BB4 they are hard to find. How much vacuum do you get on her. Got on from our dairy farm days, but never needed to hook it up. You may be seeing the difference from 20" vac to high vac. The extra 7" of mercury is 35% to 50% more production. Most " hobbyists" are not running or expected to run 27"; so the recommendation is often for standard of 20-22" unless stated as for high vac. The .2 gal/tap/hr during peak flow on 500 taps is 100 gallons/hr; so a dump of 2 gallons would need to cycle every 1.2 minutes. That's a quick cycle for fully emptying the releaser.
The bb4 should be fine for 150 taps as we ran 200 on a bb2 many years ago. Just not sure how high a vac level you can hit without a little modification to the unit.

Ben

[red maples]

the most important thing is a good tight system. you need to check for leaks on a regular basis. with my little bb2 I had I think 380 on it last year and it was too much for it. although it pulled good vac could get26"-27" on a good day, when the releaser would dump it would take to long to move out all the air from that much tubing. So I am sure I lost a lot of sap for that reason. But with a bb4 its bigger and with a tight system and a good working bb4 you should be good. They run like crazy. very important to change the oil regularly at least once a week or less depending how long your running it for if its running for 2-3 days straight I would change the oil every 3-4 days or so. but check it daily and check for water in it.

[BreezyHill]

My dad was a surge dealer and he taught me how to rebuild and modify pumps for max vacuum and efficiency. I always use a water trap and a balance tank so that water is not an issue in the pump. This way you can use the same oil all season long. The balance tank on the bb4 system had its own water dump system that was a state of the art for the time on its balance tank. I would strongly suggest a moisture trap(MT) if you don't have one. My bb4 hold 2.5 gallons of pump oil. You will pay for a MT in a season or two on the oil savings alone. Last season I changed from the bb2 to a delaval 73 and boost the vac to 28 from 22. The rotary vain stile kept up with the releaser dump cycles much better. My Releaser is isolated by way of flapper valves so I don't get the fluctuation in vac levels on the tubing. Only the balance tank suffers a drop when the releaser closes and pulls in sap from a manifold system.
This season will sport a delaval glass releaser with a rotary pump on the bottom to pull the sap away, to totally eliminate all drops in vacuum on the mains, and eliminate the balance tank.
I also run several ladders with a .47g/t last season. Looking to pass .5 this season with .55g/t goal. Miss hap on ice 2 wks back will likely limit us to running 700-800. We took a two year rest after my dad died in the winter of 2010-11.
Congrats on the marriage. Is the honey moon over yet? LOL

[tcross]

BreezyHill... Thanks for the congrats on my marriage!! Never really had a honeymoon... I've been laid up with two herniated disks for 4 months now! The honeymoon will start when I get em fixed! i've been lucky enough to have some good friends and my old man who owe me some help!! I will be running the setup with a moister trap and be walking my lines every day if possible! with 150 taps and only 375' of main line... that's feasible! I plan on adding another 300-350 taps on the pump next year! I may have to get my bender releaser fixed and put that on the 150 tap run, I've also heard that the hobby releaser on fairly high vac can have issues with over 350-400 taps or so! If for some reason I get some sap that runs into the pump, will it kill it? obviously that's what the moisture trap is for, but if for some reason it doesn't work??? I have the pump on loan form a buddy of mine so I will be very careful with it! I've also seen home built moisture traps on here made out of water filter jars... Would that work with my set up? or would it be worth the extra $ to get a real one?

[BreezyHill]

I totally understand back issues. Slipped on the ice a few weeks back. Seems the smaller the pill the bigger the bang. Ounce I get moving, and the mornings pills kick in I am pretty good. Good luck with that back!
Water and vac pumps don't mix; unless its a water ring. Did the bb4 have the original frame and balance tank? My balance tank has a rotary trap dump system. If you could find a delaval water trap you would really be cooking. They are a five gallon unit that has an auto vac relief when the pail is full. This protects the pump; but no vac will reach the lines until it is manually dumped. I picked up two for $30 each and they use a 2" vac line.
A central main line of ample size and max seal saddles with no more than 5 taps on each line and you will be rockin!
It costs a little more to have 5 taps on the lats; but the boost in vac at the tap hole will pay for the additional cost quickly. Max seals have a larger orifice into the tubing and a multi seal ring, saddle pad, and spring for the tightening bolts to keep the saddle tight thru the freeze thaw process that happens during runs.

Walking daily is a good thing. Just note where you find issues and revisit those locations carefully. I have one section the deer love to rub on the mains at saddles. Installing a valve and a gauge past the valve on the mains will allow you to check to see if you have leaks prior to walking the bush.

Well seated taps are the key to a tight system. To tight and you split the tree and have a leak all season, to loose and they can be worked out with a freeze thaw sequence or two. I prefer a good solid plastic or wood mallet to set taps so you can hear the sound a well seated tap makes.

One last thing, check the trap when the pump goes off. Dump anything in it. A little sap will rust any pump, if left in it for too much time.

Nothin wrong with a little romantic time, in the steam of the sugar house. LOL

[tcross]

Thanks for all the advice/information BreezyHill! The BB4 does have the original balance tank! well it did, but the guy who's letting me use it is currently using it! I'm gonna keep my eye out for one! we have a Delaval dealer in town... i'll be swinging over there and seeing they have one or can get me one! if not, I'm going to build one out of 3" pvc and fittings with a float ball! I've seen similar ones work... and I like messing around with things!

"in the steam of the sugar house"... I like what you did there... that's funny stuff!

[BreezyHill]

Well its like that song about Christmas Cookies...Who said you had to cook sap in the "sugar shack"...

The pvc with a ball is great just need to have some way to get the pump some air when the ball floats up and seals the vac opening. You could use a vac controller set high for 27 or more inches and get some air in that way to keep the pump from over heating.

I enjoy giving old pumps a new life by way of a few modifications. I take the old delaval 73 and can get them in the high 20's for vac with a few modifications and a rebuild. Rebuilt my D 75 and she is pulling 28". MY old D 73 ran 28+ without modifications but she gets hot on 50+ degree days.

Tinkering is how you save $$$ and expand the brain power.

Good Luck!

Ben

[tcross]

I was trying to think of a way to get some air in there when the ball seals it off. I'm alittle confused as to what a vacuum controller is... however I think it is... it's a valve that would pop open when the vacuum reached a certain pressure, thus allowing the air to enter in to the vac? so I would put this in the tube, before the vacuum line reached the moisture trap? am I right at assuming that?? I probably could pick one up at any hardware store and plumb it in?

[BreezyHill]

Vac controller is designed to limit the amount of vac that is supplied to the system from the pump. Dairy supply store for the unit. Most are designed for 15 inches as that is what you milk at; while for sap you want as much as you can. The delaval trap has a small hole drilled into the end of the shaft and thru the side of the shaft to allow air to enter after the float has sealed the line. This dumps air into the vac pump. I will get ya some pics.

[tcross]

awesome! pics would be great!