Is a generator a waste of fuel?

[Starting Small]

So I picked up a generator for free. My plan was to use it to power my Delaval 73 and electric releaser. I got to thinking though that maybe the fuel costs will out weigh the fact that it was free and maybe I should buy a smaller gas powered motor from somewhere? The generator is either on or off, does not have a variable speed. It runs either 115 or 230 volts. What are your thoughts? Should I buy a gas engine or should I go with the free generator? Another question that I have is what kind of engines and pumps mdo you use to transfer sap from a collection tank into your truck tank? Thanks,
-Dave

[wrushton]

I have a small 1200 watt colmen generator to run my lights and blower ,that's about all it can take it cost me liter/hour to run your pump system will need lot more power around 3000 to 5000 watts and that closer to 2-3 liters and hour

[lpakiz]

I run my Surge SP-11 with a 3.5 HP Tecumseh. It runs around 20 hours on 2.5 gallons of gas. But, it is going at about 1/3 throttle. I think you need the smallest motor that will take the load. These engines are used on small snow-blowers and garden tillers, or Northern Tool has brand new ones pretty reasonably priced.
Also, the Tecumseh has a float-bowl carburetor, so I can unhook the on-board tank and attach a larger tank to the barbed inlet fitting. The gas can hangs from a hook above the motor, to gravity-feed the carb. You can't do that with a Briggs, because the carb is mounted on the gas tank and lifts gas up to itself.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

you are running a much larger motor than we are, we just have couple sap suckers and we used a large generator 5500W/6250surge last year it was killing us in fuel. We found a small two stroke at harbor freight for $89, 800W, 900W surge 1.1 gal tank and it runs 10hrs. I would do what was suggested above find the load you have to run and get a generator that will run it.

[maple flats]

If you are only running the pump with the genny, you will do far better getting a gas motor. If you have a few things that the genny will be operating then you need to study your needs to decide. I run 2 vacuum pumps on gas Honda engines, at 2 locations. I have 4.5 gal gas tanks connected to them. Honda's are compatable with remote tanks. I bought new tanks from Surplus Center, they are genny replacement tanks. I just built a wooden cradle to hold them beside the motor.

[madmapler]

Harbor freight sells some pretty cheap gas engines. I bought the 79cc. (2 or 3hp) to run my gast pump and it sips gas. They're about $100 and started every time. They sell a number of sizes. I've also got a 2 stroke gen. like flat landers. They wont power up a lot but they're pretty cheap to run. The harbor freight motor(predator brand)runs with a separate tank. I took a 6 gallon. red plastic gas can and drilled a hole in the bottom corner and installed a petcock with grommet. You can get them at any small engine repair shop or on ebay. I built a wooden frame-cradle for my engine-pump assembly with a plywood lid. Then I screwed down some cleats on the plywood to keep the gas can on top.

[Starting Small]

Sounds great guys, I think I will try to find a gas engine. I will probably need 1500-2000 watts. Thanks for the advice!
-Dave

[morningstarfarm]

The gas engine will work great for your pump...but will not help much with your electric releaser...just a thought...And most releaser pumps are 220 I believe...

[madmapler]

I was looking at how many taps you have and though it sounds like you may have gotten a good deal, thats a lot of pump for them. I assume the electric releaser will handle a good deal more too. Are you planning on growing into them? If not then maybe sell them and pick up a smaller pump(a gast would do it) and(bender would work) releaser. Is the bush close enough to electricity that you could run a main line from the pump and releaser to it? I dont know what your bush elevation is but you should have cfms to spare with that set up. Going back to my first thought you could probably sell the pump and releaser you have for a bit more than you would pay for a smaller set up. I ran a gast with a bender last year on the 2hp predater engine. It was quite economical for a gas set up. Just throwing out ideas. I'm sure you've got a lot to do with the sugarhouse build and all.

[pipeline]

my 2 cents is convert gas motors to propane half the fuel cost and less problems!!have run motors in the woods for 15-20 years

[lpakiz]

Pipeline,
That sounds interesting. How is this conversion done?

[K.I. Joe]

Pipeline, I too would be interested in this conversion, please explain

[PerryFamily]

Pipeline- I am interested in this as well.

I have 2 honda powered pumps.

Thank you in advance

[madmapler]

Heres a propane conversion kit on ebay. Not cheap though.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Propane-LP-Conversion-Kit-Gas-Engine-4cycle-Dual-Fuel-Generator-Blower-Honda-/290768818360?pt=US_Outdoor_Power_Equipment&hash=item43b32c10b8#ht_697wt_638 Theres others on the net I'm sure....... Just found a youtube video of a guy who did it dirt cheap. Looks pretty simple http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94dwzYJzrcU

[pipeline]

sorry about the response time working in the woods all day !! i cant remember the web site but we got them off the web the best one was a duel fuel set up with an adapter between cylinder head and carb. you can start on reg gas and switch to propane while engine is running or just start on propane . the other kit you took off carb bowl and remove float assembly and insert adapter for propane. i dont or wont use this one again as once converted you cant go back to gas . first one works the best is the easiest with no drastic alterations to carb you can just remove adapter block and go back to just gas if need be . the best bonus was propane delivery guy delivered to site and the local gas thief lost his outlet for free gas !!!!! propane in comparison has 10% less btu or energy ? per gallon but half the price of gasoline and burns cleaner just google propane carbs . com looks like the good design !! we have run alot of different pumps with motors my opinion honda is the most reliable !

[pipeline]

another note we have ran electric to two pumps and trying to get it to third cost alot but if you are in it for the long haul bite the bullet and do it there are enough headaches during sugar season !!!!!!!!!!!

[markct]

Harbor freight sells some pretty cheap gas engines. I bought the 79cc. (2 or 3hp) to run my gast pump and it sips gas. They're about $100 and started every time. They sell a number of sizes. I've also got a 2 stroke gen. like flat landers. They wont power up a lot but they're pretty cheap to run. The harbor freight motor(predator brand)runs with a separate tank. I took a 6 gallon. red plastic gas can and drilled a hole in the bottom corner and installed a petcock with grommet. You can get them at any small engine repair shop or on ebay. I built a wooden frame-cradle for my engine-pump assembly with a plywood lid. Then I screwed down some cleats on the plywood to keep the gas can on top. Just curious what kind of numbers you get for fuel consumption? I have a small gast pump i was thinking of running with one of the 79 cc engines geared to run half throttle im hoping i can go about 10 hrs on 2 gal gas to make it worthwile on the taps i have at this location

[madmapler]

I dont think thats unrealistic. I dont know exactly but I can say I was really surprised when I went to refill the tank. It just seemed to run forever. This propane thing has me real interested. From looking at several youtube videos it looks pretty easy to convert to propane with very little expense($30-40 on avg.) Propane is cleaner and more reliable because it bypasses all the moving parts of the carb. Apparently it costs a fraction of what gasoline costs.You can actually run an engine just by sticking a propane hose in the throat of the carb. though its not the best way.

[michiganfarmer2]

I use a surge sp22 vacuum pump with about a horse and a half electric motor,and a mechanical releaser. I run a 5500 watt generator to power this. It uses about 10 gallons of gas in a 12 hour period. I think its worth it.

I iused about about 150 gallons of gas in 2013, and I made 400 gallons of syrup from 1200 taps with 24" hg

[madmapler]

At a conservative $3.50 per gallon for gas,that comes out to $525.00 for the season. Roughly $1.20 per gal. syrup. Thats not bad but if you can run that pump on a 1.5hp electric then you could run it on a 3hp. gas engine which would save you quite possibly 1/2 that. If you ran propane then you could save considerably more. From what I'm seeing so far, propane is the way to go. I'm definately going to experiment with it.

[pipeline]

cant remember all the numbers exactly but propane last season was around 1.80 a gal.delivered verses gas aprox. 4.00 delivered to farm then put in jugs and hauled to the woods every day one of our hondas would run perfect for hours then come back and muffler was cold witch means not much in sap tank ! went to propane only time it has quit was when someone didnt check oil . oil alert auto shut off a good thing !!another note the 12 horse motors at harbor freight didnt hold up for us had problems with valves rocker assembly plastic parts failing other than that ran good . make sure you get the extended warranty and just exchange that worked ok if you have a spare motor for brake downs really like hondas dependability !!!!

[madmapler]

Thanks Pipeline for your input and suggestions about using propane.I agree that the honda motor is no doubt more reliable than the predator but the price is hard to beat and I really was impressed with it last season. I'm looking to save where ever possible as I'm just getting going. If things work out a few years down the road I'll be running power. Its not far away. If this propane is economical enough though its going to make some other bushes I've been looking at a lot more feasible. Thanks again.

[Bruce L]

I will keep track of fuel cost at the end of this season, will be running a 20 hp honda generator,last year was the tractor and generator beside the vacuum pump daily as it is a 3 hp motor,so daily fill- ups required for the tractor.Not sure about fuel costs in the U.S,but up here gas is presently running at $1.29 per litre,which converts to $5.44 per U.S gallon with the current exchange rate, no wonder I am carrying Jerry cans across with me.
Local feed store here was loading some pallets with a propane skid steer loader,told me he wished he had stayed with gasoline,said one tank of propane costs $35.00 barely lasts a week,gasoline was 25 litres per fill up which would last 3 weeks.

[madmapler]

up here gas is presently running at $1.29 per litre,which converts to $5.44 per U.S gallon with the current exchange rate, no wonder I am carrying Jerry cans across with me.
. Oh my word!!!$5.44 per gallon? Its $3.46 down here right now. My brother works for a fuel company and he can get propane dirt cheap. I just called him and he said he paid $5.00 to fill a 20 lb.tank this summer. Its $15.00 at the pump.

[Bruce L]

Madmapler, I have noticed your fuel is always cheaper. Whenever I am headed that way I wait until I cross the Vermont state line from New York, always drops 10 cents per gallon from New York prices. As far as the propane goes to exchange a 20 lb propane tank on the barbecue it is just a few cents shy of $28.00. I see on the computer tonight they haven't quite figured out why tourism is down here in Canada. Might be that I can fill our van for about $65.00 in the U.S, last time I filled up here was over $90.00,hotels in the U.S can be had for $50-60 bucks including breakfast, you can double that minimum up here, plus breakfast on your own, maybe $15 each if you are lucky

[madmapler]

Ten years ago we were paying a buck a gallon. The rich get richer...