Pump

[western mainer]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flotec-1-2-HP-Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-FP4012/100140720#
Do you think this would work to pump sap (push) a rise of 30' ?
Thanks Brian

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

look at the specs and it would be marginal if im reading them correctly

[unc23win]

I think it depends on exactly what you want to do. A cheaper option would be a sump pump of sorts. I believe a shallow well pump if it is like one I have at my barn it would require being primed before it pumps, which would be a pain to do for each use. However a sump pump say one with a float switch and check valve removed would probably get the job done. There would be some back flow which is why you make sure the check valve is out then your line will drain and not freeze. Also the pedastal sump pumps allow you to adjust the float so it runs more or less however you want it.

[markct]

It should push sap 30ft no problem, its designed to be used as a water pump for a house, from basement to 3rd floor bathroom would be 30ft or better! it says 30 to 50psi output that should easily push sap 30ft. Not sure what others meant about the specs being marginal, it wouldn't lift it that far but would have no prob pushing it that far for sure

[markct]

After a little calculation 30psi will push 70ft of head pressure, so should do what you want by the specs, not marginal at all

[Spanielslovesappin]

What exactly are you doing with this pump? sap to a feed tank, water service? sap from the bottom of a sugar bush through a mile of pipe to the sugar house? Many variables!

This pump has a pressure switch wired in it so you may have to bypass this depending on what your doing. It will supply 3 Gal Per Min at 40 PSI pumping up 30' (30' of head (elevation, not pipe length). This is quite slow...but may be the cats meow for your application.

[western mainer]

Thanks for the info. I will be pumping up to a tank from a tank from down in a valley so I have a rise of about 30'.
Thanks Brian

[para2]

Remember h2o has a friction loss.the smaller the pipe the more loss.with no head.you could lose a significant amount of flow in say a3/4 inch line in say200ft.

[Thad Blaisdell]

We get the 30 feet of rise, what we need to know is total distance of pipe.

[western mainer]

The piping needed is about 100'

[Thomas Maxwell Hume]

It looks like it's only rated for 25' of head,

[lpakiz]

Well, all I can say is that isn't much of a well pump if it can only lift 25 feet, not to mention up to several hundred feet of underground line from the well to the house.

[markct]

The laws of physics wont let you lift water much more than that, you can push it much further tho. That's why nowdays most wells use submersible pumps which are at the bottom of the well and can push the water as far as you could want.

[Spanielslovesappin]

two last questions... where do you plan to locate the pump? is the pump going to be located at the lower tank, at the upper tank or somewhere in the middle? and how much sap are we trying to pump? how big is the tank/ how many taps feed into it?

This pump can suck water up 25' max... where are you getting your elevation from? eyeballs are almost always wrong and we are pretty close to the limits for this pump so its important, I use google maps.

most guys just oversize like crazy but its not to awful to figure it all out and buy only the pump you need.

[western mainer]

The pump will be located at the lower tank and will feed at the bottom of the tank and will be on a float switch.

[markct]

How do you get elevations off google maps? I was just poking around there and don't see any contour elevation lines or option to show them?

[Starting Small]

How do you get elevations off google maps? I was just poking around there and don't see any contour elevation lines or option to show them?

If you look in the bottom right corner (could be bottom left) it gives the elevation based upon where on the map your cursor is pointing.
-Dave

[Spanielslovesappin]

OK, based on all this the pump you propose will work BUT you will have to bypass the pressure switch and it will only give you 3-4 Gal per min. Also you must use a 3/4" line as a 1/2" line will just about choke this pump in your situation.

I would like to propose a different pump.

Wayne Stainless Steel Sprinkler Booster Pump — 720 GPH, 1 HP, 1in., Model# PLS100

Home Depot: Model # PLS100 Internet # 203448494 $200

$154 on Amazon!

SS pump instead of plastic, its still self priming so you wont have to worry about priming and it does not have a pressure switch that you will have to work around. You can just put a sump pump plug in float switch in the tank, plug it in and pump away...
the best part is that this pump will work if you ever find yourself pumping a longer distance or more elevation and you can get away with using 1/2" hose. It will give you 10 GPM in your current situation which is respectable.

If i needed to buy a sap transfer pump at the moment this would be it...

The only negative is that it is a fan cooled motor so you don't want to let it get rained on to much that said i would not allow any motor to be openly rained on. Also you cannot allow it to freeze.

Good luck!

[markct]

Im hoping that pump you suggest works well as I purchased one recently to use as an electric releaser setup with a chamber and float switch, it looks like a nicely made pump altho it should be noted that its stainless housing, the impellar and inside volute are all plastic, the stainless is just the outside covering

[SeanD]

I've also been eyeing that pump and it's probably the one I'll end up with. It's good in all ways, but is not self-priming.

Sean

[lpakiz]

Well, all I can say is that isn't much of a well pump if it can only lift 25 feet, not to mention up to several hundred feet of underground line from the well to the house.

I used a poor choice of words when I said "only LIFT 25 feet." I really meant "PUSH" 25 feet

[Super Sapper]

The sprinkler pump and almost all self priming pumps still need to be primed the first time or you will burn out the seal and it won't pump. You need to fill the volute with liquid, this will allow the pump to create the vacuum needed to lift the liquid to prime the hose. After this is done and the pump is shut off it will retain liquid so that you do not need to reprime it. If it is going to freeze you will need to drain the pump and refill with liquid before using again.

[Spanielslovesappin]

So the real version of this pump made by goulds or grundfoss would run $700-1000. This is a low cost pump made for watering your lawn. It's perfect for a small producer looking to transfer sap. The plastic internals are not a problem, they just wont be anywhere near as long wearing as the full SS american made version. It looks like we are servicing 250 taps with a eye for expansion to 2000, This pump should work well for a good while at least, not break the bank and if not dun dry or frozen last quite a long time as sap transfer only occurs a few days a year.

As for using it on a belly releaser... its a cheap pump, the shaft seal, and housing may or may not hold up to a maple pipeline vac. It has a one year warranty so you can get a new seal (they would never give you a new housing if you crush it with vac) BUT you could find yourself unable pump your sap. I would not use this pump in this application; to much at risk! If you must proceed turn on your vac system and bring the releaser/pump down to regular working vac and let it sit like that for a few hours at least. Throw some water in the releaser and run the pump for a few min at a time to simulate what will happen when the sap start flowing. If the housing does not deform make sure that air is not being sucked in through the seal.

As for self priming... This type of pump as a little internal jet to allow the pump to suck water up out of a well or pond, for that to work you must have the housing full of water or sap. If you hook it up to the bottom of a tank and it has a bit of positive suction pressure on it it will self prime with no assistance though the point about burning up the seal is valid thus make sure the pump housing has sap in it prior to turning it on each day.

Lift Vs Push,
The original flotec pump can lift water 25 feet. i.e. it can suck water up hill 25' or lift water 25 feet out of a well or pond. It can push it much father, it has a shut down head of 78 PSI or 180 feet... That the same as the Wayne PL100... the difference is that the Wayne pump is 1 HP not 1/2 HP so it can deliver way more flow through much smaller pipes, it has a SS housing and does not have the built in pressure switch that has to be worked around and a lower cost.

I still still think that as a small sap transfer pump in western mainer's application the PL100 cannot be beat. Google shopping has them as low a $132.

[markct]

I didnt mean to imply the plastic inards were a poor choice for out applications, just was mentioning that since some folks may not realize they are not same design when comparing them to 900 dollar goulds and gundefos pumps. Also I understand the sealing issues you mention but you need to remember pumping water up 25 ft is pulling as much or more vac than the 18 to 19 in vac i run on my system. I have been using a plastic housed pump in a simular setup for years under vac with no troubles