Beech Trees

[filb972]

I recently purchased a parcel which was selectively logged about 3 years ago(They took all trees 14" and up). The property consists of mostly sugar maples. The other trees consist of white ash, basswood and beech. In some spots of the property I notice the beech saplings are out numbering the maple saplings. Should cut the beech back to give the maples in that area a better chance. In addition I noticed a huge population of raspberries filling in the understory. Should I be concerned with this?
Thanks

[unc23win]

I would thin out some of the beech they are not much fun to work around seems like they never grow normal branches. I would guess that the rasberries are a sign of good sunlight and good soil.

[jmayerl]

That is a very normal progression for a hardwoods in the Midwest. Sounds just like some of our land, the berries disappeared after about 15 years when the trees filled back in very well. Where you go from here depends on your plans for the woods. If you only are concerned with Mac syrup production I would start taking out the beech. Usually the stumps must be sprayed to keep them from growing back. If you prefer a well balanced natural woods I would let some of the beech in and maybe only cut where they directly compete with maples. Remember that although beech is usually considered a junk wood . It is excellent for firewood.
A diverse woods is a healthy woods!

[markcasper]

I recently purchased a parcel which was selectively logged about 3 years ago(They took all trees 14" and up). In addition I noticed a huge population of raspberries filling in the understory. Should I be concerned with this?
Thanks
I don't mean to ruin anyones day, but the treatment that you experienced with your woodlot was a "diameter limit cut", not a "select cut". This is about the worst thing that can be done to a woodlot. You are having raspberries growing because the woodlot got too much timber taken out all at once. Your woods is not destroyed, don't get me wrong, but it would have been better to take out some of the poorer stems in all of the class sizes, not just everything above so many inches.
I'm guessing the woods was not professionally marked either? A logger came to your door and knocked? and couldn't refuse the $$$? How much crappy wood above 14" did they leave standing? I'm just asking because this is what has gone on in my area over the years.

The beach I would take out only if it is interfering with a crop tree. I would only take the beach out slowly, since it seems theres already been alot opened up. There is great stress to the remaining trees when doing a diameter limit cut, and as well, too much sunlight all at once, therefore raspberries, briars and prickly ash. Damage from windthrow now becomes an issue because the remaining trees didn't have time to adjust their root systems. Hopefully your woodlot is not on a southwest exposure which is prone to summertime wind storms.

[maple flats]

Beech trees are a weed tree. Do remove systematically and be sure to treat the stump. Markcasper is right, don't rush. Beech trees will both regrow from the stump AND will grow new shoots from the wide spreading shallow root system. They will come back in very dense thickets if left unchecked. Only remove those that are not in the open for best results and be watchful for thickets. cut and treat those asap.
The good thing is that beech makes excellent firewood. For more info, go online to cornell's website and search for a seminar by Dr. Peter Smallage on getting rid of beech in the maple woods.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I am a beech tree fan. I like beech trees in my woods for the deer and bear. Where I am in VT, beech are pretty thick in spots.

What I do is clean out the beech tree's that interfere with my maples. (if you touch my crown, I will cut you down).

After that, I leave some pockets of beech for the animals and for firewood. And forest diversity.

When targeting the beech trees to harvest, look at the bark and if the tree looks healthy, I suggest to leave it. If it has the beech tree disease (bumpy bark), cull it. Cut all the trees that have this disease.

From what i have read on beech trees, there is only like 5-10% of the trees that are resistant to the disease. These are the ones we need to save. Or there may be no more beech trees some day.

[maple flats]

Don't get me wrong, I too have beech, I just try to keep it in check. And, yes, both turkeys and deer along with tree rats and others like beech nuts. Hey, even a chewing gum company likes them.

[filb972]

I don't mean to ruin anyones day, but the treatment that you experienced with your woodlot was a "diameter limit cut", not a "select cut". This is about the worst thing that can be done to a woodlot.

Correction noted thanks. I purchased the property as a foreclosure and could not resist the price tag. The previous land owner before he let it go back to the bank had it logged, apparently for quick cash. I had hired a forester to create a management plan and he informed me the loggers took all the" rubies"(they didn't even take the tops). According to the forester this forest is still well stocked but they range from 1" to 12" in diameter and maybe a few ugly bigger ones. The plan he wrote for me was a general forest/land plan geared toward erosion control from the logging roads and trails. My plan is to use the property for hunting for now. I will not be able to use it for syrup for 15 to 20 years(retirement) as it is 3.5 Hrs from my home. In this time I would like to start managing it for future syrup production. I had read the beech are invasive and should be controlled. In retrospect I should have hired a forester with experience in managing a sugar bush. I feel with proper management this can be a productive forest. That is if I can keep those silly squirrels and porcupines from eating all my baby maples!
Thanks for all the input.

[maple flats]

Many foresters are trained to manage any aspect the land owner wants. It is even likely the one you had could have managed for syrup. However many foresters are far better at any specific goal than others. If you wanted to manage for syrup production that one may or may not have been the right choice. My suggestion is to lean your Forest Stweardship Plan in the maple direction. The plan my not need any formal changes. Study what good management practices go with maple syrup production. Generally the plan likely labels "crop" trees, you just favor Maple as you work your plan, but by all means don't save only maples, a mixed forest is much healthier than a mono species one.

[loggerman9]

I think you my have made the best buy when you bought this lot.You may want to work hard on a few of the heavyest young maple areas. New type of maple tree farms are coming fast. I acre of averge trees will produce about 80 gals of syrup while 1 acre of small trees will produce 400gals of maple syrup. this is because an acre of large trees will have 80-160 taps while a small stand will have 3000-6000 taps.If these new studys prove to work you will have a productive sugar woods soon.

[markcasper]

Correction noted thanks. I purchased the property as a foreclosure and could not resist the price tag. The previous land owner before he let it go back to the bank had it logged, apparently for quick cash.

I guess I did not understand that you purchased it this way. Correction noted. We do not have beech trees in western Wis. What happened to your woodlot is what happened to ours back in the early 80's, before I was making syrup and not old enough. In fact as I stated, most woodlots had this type of cut occur in the 70's and 80's. I remember our woods being absolutely thick with brush, thickets, raspberries and the like in the mid 80's. There was a fair amount of windthrow damage through the 80's and into the early 90's as well. About 1/2 of the acreage is on the southern exposure which gets nailed hard by violent summertime thunderstorms with the wind always from the southwest. The trees that have survived have now filled in to the point where their crowns and roots are much more able to take it. So basically it takes 20-30 years for a woods to recover fully from a diameter-limit cut. The most important thing you can do now is be very selective and careful in what you remove until the trees get some more growth to them, even if the beech trees are weeds, they still serve a purpose in helping absorbing extra sun and wind.

[markcasper]

I acre of averge trees will produce about 80 gals of syrup while 1 acre of small trees will produce 400gals of maple syrup. this is because an acre of large trees will have 80-160 taps while a small stand will have 3000-6000 taps.If these new studys prove to work you will have a productive sugar woods soon.Ok....I am missing something, please explain further. 400 gals. syrup per acre....WHAT?

[GeneralStark]

Ok....I am missing something, please explain further. 400 gals. syrup per acre....WHAT?

He is referring to this: http://www.uvm.edu/~uvmpr/?Page=news&storyID=17209

[MJFlores]

To the OP, your land sounds like my land. I bought my property about 5 years after it was logged "selectively" and now have more beech than anything. Beech really grows quickly, but it's a huge benefit to wildlife. I protect my beech and oak when possible here. Flag your maple trees, and cut back the other trees from them. Use a brush cutter for the raspberries (I have them everywhere including my lawn if I don't mow it enough). Once you get a pattern going it wont take much effort to maintain it.

[Michael Greer]

Back to the original question about rapid growth of briars and brush. Any logging you do of any kind will allow more sunlight into the understory, and the first result is a great rush of tiny trees jumping up to take advantage. It's a big competition and very few of those thousands of little trees will survive to adulthood. The briars will never become trees, and will begin to fail as the trees get to be fifteen feet tall or so. The in-between years may look like a terrible thicket to you, but it looks like bed and breakfast to the wildlife. Once the trees reack twenty feet or so, you'll begin to notice some die-off, and a bit better visibility for you, 'cause you can see UNDER the branches. I wouldn't worry about thinning until these young trees get big enough for the wood-stove. Let nature do it's part first, and worry with the fine tuning of the forest later.