flow meter

[meadster02]

Does anyone have a flow meter to tell exactly how many gallons of sap they are buying from someone.

[jmayerl]

You would be a fool not to......hence I was a fool last year. Did you know that a 275 gallon tote only holds 261 gallons when full. That's 3.92 per load you pay extra at 2%. Hopefully my new Chinese meter is accurate!

[maple flats]

Yes, I have a retired municipal water meter. I'm not sure where you found out that a 275 tote is 2% short, my readings if full to the tip top run between 278-280 gal. If the Chinese meter read 261 and the tote was full to the 275 mark, I say it is incorrect and will cheat your supplier.

[bowhunter]

I think Dave's right on this one. Totes are sized to allow for expansion of the liquid in transit. I don't think there's any way a US made IBC or 275 gallon tote tank is going to be undersized by 12 gallons. They're made to pretty exact standards and I believe they are regulated by DOT. The Chinese meter is probably reading 2% low which is probably within the accuracy they quote in their specifications. Plus or minus 2% accuracy on a flow meter is pretty good unless it's used for custody transfers of large quantities of liquids and gases.

[unc23win]

I agree with Dave I have found that mine holds more than what it says as well. But here is my opinion (being a former hauler) this person who you are getting sap from is going to all the trouble to collect and haul it to you working hard and your going to grumble over 4 gallons? Maybe they had it full to the tip top and some sloshed out in transit? Either way they have quite a bit of effort into it.

I mean if your deal is 50/50 of syrup or you are buying sap seems to me you are still making out pretty good. I never once had the person taking my sap on a 50/50 deal not give me full credit for a load. However if you are so concerned with getting shorted have them pump it into your (dump) tank that is properly calibrated and prove to them your readings are accurate. Then you can pump it into your tank.

[jmayerl]

Ok since I wasn't clear enough in what I said here it is again. Last year I delivered a full tote to the largest buyer in wisconsin. They have a digital meter to measure incoming sap. My load was 267 gallons. The guy behind me had a full load and his was 261. Now I guess his meter could be off, or maybe it's not rated to flow at such a high rate but either way, it was all I had to go by. Fast forward 2 weeks and I was buying sap. All I had to go by was the hash marks on the totes and I can tell you they are way off. These totes you see are not in anyway certified by weights and measures so no, you can not assume that they just hold a marked amount. Now I have purchased a new digital flow meter and I hope it is accurate enough.
So for those if you that don't think 14 gallons is a big deal, add that up over 10-15 load per day, over say a 10 day season. Does 1400-2100 gallons seem like a big deal now? What if the swing went the other way?

[markct]

Just because its digital doesnt mean its accurate, many people seem to be under this impression as its so easy to read the numbers how could they be wrong. As for totes i never saw one that held less than rated volume. I think you got cheated on that load altho i would guess thats likely within the error of most high flow water meters

[whalems]

I would also agree you got shorted! I have 4 of these totes 2 different manufactures and they all hold more then what they are rated for.

[DrTimPerkins]

Just because its digital doesnt mean its accurate...

And just because it is precise doesn't mean it is accurate (in other words, the gauge may read to 0.1 gal, but if it's a +/- 2% gauge, it could be off by several gallons per each 100 gallons).

Additionally, flow gauges have certain installation requirements (liquid vs air flow, length of pipe, orientation, avoiding bends or obstructions in flow) depending upon their construction that must be followed for accurate measurements. That +/- 2% accuracy that is quoted is only achievable IF THE GAUGE IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY. Ignore those installation parameters at your own peril.

[markct]

Good point Dr Tim! I just meant that so many people think thermometers, caliper, and other digital stuff must be acurrate to the smallest number they read when infact thats not true at all

[DrTimPerkins]

Good point Dr Tim! I just meant that so many people think thermometers, caliper, and other digital stuff must be acurrate to the smallest number they read when infact thats not true at all

You are absolutely correct.

[kiteflyingeek]

I had 55 gallon drums that have marks on the side every 5 gallon. Those stop at 55 but there's still room for another 5 gallons in the barrel. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't just the large totes that allow for more liquid in them than the "official" or "labelled" quantity.

--andrew

[BreezyHill]

I sold GVm tanks, the disclaimer on the tank tags is that "the imprinted gallonage is for approximate storage amounts and will change due to density of liquids, barometric pressure, and tank deformities". The reason most totes are in cages is that they are very thin walled and expand a lot. This changes the gallonage in the tank and it will change from day to day depending on barometric pressure. Only a sealed and certified meter should be used in the purchase of products. These are rather costly but there are a few sites on the web you can get deals on. Or you could take your meter and see if it passes a weights and measures test. The easier way is if the purchaser has a set of scales under his/her tank. Certified weight scales are much cheaper and you just convert the gallons to pounds, higher sugar content weights more though.

Food for thought.

Ben

[BAP]

If your "largest buyer in Wisconsin" doesn't have a certified calibrated flow meter, then it shouldn't be used to purchase sap. I don't know what the laws are there, but here in New Hampshire, things like gas pumps scales and other like things have have to be tested and certified by the state if they are going to be used for the sale of products. This is to prevent fraud of faulty weights and gallonage.

[jmayerl]

BAP- I just googled New Hampshires weights and measures and saw nothing about sap processors meters having to be legally checked....just like here and probably anywhere you might sell sap . Now you can file a complaint with the state and they may be able to then go out and inspect this place but if they hold no regulation over it I'm not sure.