Sap selling??

[Jmsmithy]

Hello Folks!

I know we not quite there yet but I thought I'd ask now. This season will be our first year of commercial production and I know I won't have enough taps yet this year, may not have vac either. That being said, I'd be interested in anyone who sells sap in the central NY/ADK/Lewis/Oneida/Oswego area or thereabouts. My sugarbush is in Herkimer County, in South West corner of the ADK Park.

What does it entail? Do sellers typically deliver? Minimums ? Etc etc etc.....:o

Thought now as good a time as any to get folks thinking about it at least :lol:

[spud]

[QUOTE=Jmsmithy;231805]Hello Folks!

I know we not quite there yet but I thought I'd ask now. This season will be our first year of commercial production and I know I won't have enough taps yet this year, may not have vac either. That being said, I'd be interested in anyone who sells sap in the central NY/ADK/Lewis/Oneida/Oswego area or thereabouts. My sugarbush is in Herkimer County, in South West corner of the ADK Park.

A person bringing sap to you would get paid more then you picking the sap up at their location. It would be up to you to determine what the minimum amount would be for you to go get sap. You might want a 100 gallon minimum if brought to you. That really depends on how much storage you have and how many gallons per hour you can boil. If all you have is a 2x6 then maybe 50 gallon minimum would work. The one thing you don't want is to not have enough storage on big run day's. Your seller's will need to empty their tanks so they don't run over and lose money.

Spud

[Jmsmithy]

Thx Spud. How far do you think us reasonable to travel, either me to the seller or vice versa? I know depends on how much purchased. Based on what I'm currently anticipating storage wise I'd probably be looking to 1000 gals or so at a time...

[lpakiz]

Jmsmithy,
Have you seen the Sap Calculator program (app?). You just plug in the sugar % of sap, the gallons delivered and the % (typically 50) of what you agree to share with the supplier, etc and it tells you what you owe him for that delivery.
I'll see if I can find it or get a copy of the icon off my IPad...

[unc23win]

lpakiz Which one do you have? The one I got on my iphone a while back didn't work for calculating syrup made maybe the other features worked right.

[lpakiz]

http://www.ohiomaple.org/sap-app.html

I see it is supplied courtesy of Bissel Maple Farm and Cornell University.
Thanks go out to these folks for supplying this for us!

[unc23win]

Thanks that one works good. I hope someone makes one for the Iphone or Ipad soon so internet is not required.

[lpakiz]

I have it as an icon right on the IPad. I would assume it works on smart phone or IPhones?
I thought it worked without Internet. I used it in the sugar house, where WiFi didn't usually work because it is almost out of the range of my WiFi. I'll have to try later, well out of range behind the SH.

[maple flats]

I'm not in you neighborhood, but I no longer buy sap for cash, I only buy at 50-50 split. I get a reading on sugar % using a long hydrometer (more precise readings) and do the math, while they are there. Then after the syrup is made, they get half if in their containers, if I supply the containers they get the cost deducted out of their syrup share. For that I use actual container cost and subtract it from the wholesale value of the syrup. I generally use $2.75 light, $2.50 med and dark and $2.25 B. based on last year's prices.
I do not haul their sap, they bring it to me by appointment.

[Jmsmithy]

I'm not in you neighborhood, but I no longer buy sap for cash, I only buy at 50-50 split. I get a reading on sugar % using a long hydrometer (more precise readings) and do the math, while they are there. Then after the syrup is made, they get half if in their containers, if I supply the containers they get the cost deducted out of their syrup share. For that I use actual container cost and subtract it from the wholesale value of the syrup. I generally use $2.75 light, $2.50 med and dark and $2.25 B. based on last year's prices.
I do not haul their sap, they bring it to me by appointment.

Hi Dave,

Is it possible to just buy sap, with no splitting of final product? I'd prefer that as I'm concerned with having enough syrup for my outlets this spring. I assume up to the individual seller of course...

Is there a blog/website/mechanism/registry ( other than here of course :lol: ) that puts sap sellers and buyers together??

I'm new to this and learning an enormous amount from you and all the other great posts here....

Merry Christmas to all!!! :lol: :cool:

[lpakiz]

Yes, just complete the rest of the form. It will tell you how much $ you owe the sap seller.

[maple flats]

Yes, 2 yrs ago, I paid by check on delivery. Last year I decided to just do the split. The split was less stressful on my checkbook, it nearly used up my reserves and I sold no bulk that year so I carried the cost until I retailed the syrup. While I sell a good % in season, the rest is spread out and doesn't get heavy until the flurry of sales leading into Christmas. As such I just decided it meant I was absorbing the cost until 8 months later.
If you can process quickly enough there seems to be plenty of those who just sell sap. You must be able to off load at least 300 gal and even better if you can take 5-600+gal in a short period of time. Last year I at busier times received 600 gal from others along with my 2000 gal in a day and it had to be run that day because the next might be the same.

[Jeff E]

I'm not in you neighborhood, but I no longer buy sap for cash, I only buy at 50-50 split. I get a reading on sugar % using a long hydrometer (more precise readings) and do the math, while they are there. Then after the syrup is made, they get half if in their containers, if I supply the containers they get the cost deducted out of their syrup share. For that I use actual container cost and subtract it from the wholesale value of the syrup. I generally use $2.75 light, $2.50 med and dark and $2.25 B. based on last year's prices.
I do not haul their sap, they bring it to me by appointment.

Hey Dave. I am in a similar situation, but I have some guys bring me a lot of sap, and they are getting it back in syrup. I charge them for the bottle, plus $1 per bottle for my time to bottle it. Due to the volume (dozens of cases) it requires reheating (propane heater, electric heat bottler), time for bottling and clean up. One of the guys is bent out of shape that I am charging for my time, etc. My tendancy is normally to be generous, but I think what I am doing is fair. Its not like there isnt a lot to do in April with my time!
Any thoughts on if this is a bit steep on my part?

[Jmsmithy]

I think I'll have the capacity to take 3-600 gals at a time... I also can load totes etc, if delivered by truck I can offload into totes. Or, if I need to p/u, at an assumed reduction in price, I'd bring empties with me.

So then Dave, how does one go about hooking up w/sap sellers? Remember, I'm new :lol:

[lpakiz]

Jeff,
Usually, the split in syrup (50/50 or whatever) only includes the syrup. Unless negotiated differently, you can give it to him in 5 gallon jugs or even require him to furnish bulk containers. Perhaps a 45/55 split would help you feel better.

[maple flats]

Last year I didn't charge time to bottle by much, I just rounded up the container costs. I think this year I may increase that a little more to cover the other extras. I'll think on that over the next few weeks to decide on a rate.
Once I decide, if they get bent out of shape they can just sell to VVS (Where the winter conf. is held in Verona.) They pay far less, flat rate regardless of grade and only pay after the season.

[grimmreaper]

I do have to stick up for our local FFA chapter which is a non profit organization.you do have to wait for your money but they do give a fair amount...they give the same amount for 2% as they do for .5% sugar..as most who buy sap would pay according to what the actual sugar is..sorry

[grimmreaper]

maple flats , I do agree if you set your own agreement...even a cash now price or a price if they have to wait for their money..example .30 per gal. @ 2% if they wait or .20 per gal . @ 2% cash now...example only ................syrup is as good as cash but you cant forget about your time and material

[Jmsmithy]

I think I'll be paying seller cash on delivery (or pickup) as I would imagine that could equate to a better deal in the end. In addition to locating sellers, where / when do average prices get set for the sap? Are they standard from year to year (eg. Last year's price will be this year's) or do they fluctuate more like a commodity??

So much to learn, figure out etc etc :o

[maple flats]

I've always used the suggestedsap prices printed in the Jan (or was it Feb. issue of Maple Syrup Digest.

[Jmsmithy]

Do folks generally advertise selling sap in Maple News or here on Maple Trader?

[Jmsmithy]

Anyone out there who has sold/bought sap in the past? I'd be interested in hearing your point of view regarding the process pro and con :lol:

[Jeff E]

Mostly it is word of mouth.
I have considered advertising in to local paper that I would be buying sap, but have not done that.
It is important to know the quality of the sap. Clean collection system, buckets not used for other things, like used oil pails, etc., as well as a transport tank that has not had chemicals in it.

Also, talk to a local maple equipment person. They will know a lot of maple people, and can hook you up with people looking to buy/sell.

[SWEETER CREATIONS]

We buy sap from 4 different suppliers , they are paid on a 50/50 share delivered to my sugar house . As Dave says they get sugar tested while they wait and get paid in money , syrup , or value added products. This is the way they want to be paid. Mostly because they are young sugarmakers and use the money to pay for their supplies. The JONES rule of 86 isnt quite fair to the buyer though its more like 87. What ever their sugar content is divided into 87 . For the value added products they pay full retail as I employ help to run the evaporator while I do the value added products or they make the value added products. What ever your agreement tell them at the begining of the season. I have no minimun or maxium most of them call before they come because gas is 4.00 a gallon again . Have them spend their day with you when your making syrup untill 4 in the morning and most will understand what we do . I once had a man offer to help run mainline in exchange for a gallon of syrup . This was a few years ago and I agreed for every day he helped he got 1 gallon of syrup, at the end of the day he said "I'll buy my syrup from now on , and buy the way thanks for the lesson on tubing. He is still my best friend today and comes over every year and tells my boys about that day. Treat them respectfully offer them a fair price they will be honored to do business with you. These 4 have been delivering sap to me for 5 plus years and to my knowledge no hard feeling on either side of the "coin" . Mike