Hobby Sized Tubing System Guidance / Suggestions

[bcarpenter]

I am looking for some guidance for the upcoming season. Last year I plotted out the Red Maple trees that I planned on tapping and running tubing to. I did everything on Gravity and ran tubing to 5 gallon buckets, because of this I tried to limit the # of taps so on the heavy days the buckets would not overflow. I did have a couple instances of overflowing buckets, but it was manageable if I emptied before and after work. I ran the lines with the natural slope of the property for the most part.

http://billcarpenter4.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/topo.pdf

Above is a link to my blog where I uploaded a pdf file of the layout I did last year. The blue lines indicate 5/16" tubing runs. The "B" indicates a bucket location. The red arrows indicate the slope of the land. I think it may make sense to tie some of these lines together either into a single main line but I am looking for opinions. I have a 35 gallon poly tank currently and would consider upgrading to a larger tank if it makes sense to have all these lines run to a single point.

I will never be larger than 50 taps, and probably always on gravity. I will need to keep some buckets for the kids but I am looking to simplify collecting.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Bill

[maple flats]

It looks to me like you could easily run a main down either side of the creek. How big is the creek? Can you navigate it at spring thaw? If yes one main will work, but then the issue is the slope of the land, every thing is running the wrong way. Can you get to the low end where a tank would set? If yes, collect there, if not you might want a pump to push it to your driveway where you can fill a tank to haul. The kids can have buckets on the other side of the driveway, or even on the main side closest to the house.
Either way, include the kids as much as possible. Maple is a great family activity.
Good luck.
Dave

[morningstarfarm]

Run a 5/16 mainline down the creek into a min 55 gal drum...at least that is what I would do...

[maple flats]

That idea depends on the slope. I have a friend who has 53 taps on a single line, but his slope is like 15-25% (15-25' rise per 100'). If you have the slope, a 5/16 down each side should be fine.

[bcarpenter]

The creek is more like a drainage, not full all year round and easily crossable all year.

How much slope is needed if I were to run a line parallel to the creek? The property does slope some from left to right along the creek, but not sure how much, is there a good way to check that?

Access to the end of the line would be by foot off of the road that wraps my lot.


It looks to me like you could easily run a main down either side of the creek. How big is the creek? Can you navigate it at spring thaw? If yes one main will work, but then the issue is the slope of the land, every thing is running the wrong way. Can you get to the low end where a tank would set? If yes, collect there, if not you might want a pump to push it to your driveway where you can fill a tank to haul. The kids can have buckets on the other side of the driveway, or even on the main side closest to the house.
Either way, include the kids as much as possible. Maple is a great family activity.
Good luck.
Dave

[lpakiz]

"Access to the end of the line would be by foot off of the road that wraps my lot."

Would it be feasible to get electricity to the above mentioned point? If so, an electric pump to move sap from the collection tank to a transfer tank would be ideal. You would love not having to go thru the work of collecting and carrying all that sap on foot. If no electricity is available, how about a small gas pump?

[maple flats]

What kind of distance are you talking? One 12 volt option is to have a bilge pump (as used on boats). Many producers use them to transfer sap from collection tank to truck (or ATV, tractor or other) tank using the 12v vehicle battery. Those pumps are fairly cheap and move sap well as long as the lift isn't too much.

[bcarpenter]

Not sure if this will help everyone understand my situation, but I was able to track down this GIS map of my lot with topo lines, see link below. Unfortunately they do not show the creek/drainage correctly so I drew it in with a heavy blue line. The end of the "future" main line would probably be down by the right side of the creek. Approximately 150' to 200' from the start of the main line and probably 300' from the house.
http://billcarpenter4.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/upgraded-topo-with-elevations-12-05-2013.pdf

If I run a main line left to right, can I use 5/16" tubing and tie all my laterals 25+/- taps into it?

Is it safe to say a 65 gallon leg tank would handle that many taps?

Power is only at the house, what are my pumping options, can i have a pump at the house that is tied to the leg tank or does the pump need to be at the leg tank?

Since these are red maples are there any ultra small vacuum systems I should think about or should I focus on trying to get natural vacuum?

Thanks
Bill

[morningstarfarm]

Ok...to me you have 2 options...one...natural gravity...I would run a single 5/16 main line and tee all your laterals off it...run it down to a 55 gal plastic drum...
Two...and if you are running all red maples this is my recommendation...run a 3/4" main line right along the creek down to a small releaser...and run high vacuum pump into it..reds are notoriously fickle on gravity or buckets....put them under vacuum and they run pretty much just like sugars...I would use 2 barrels plumbed together if you do decide to go vacuum though...on a good day you could get 1.5-2 gals a tap...or if you want a 100 gal tank...just my .02....good luck either way

[Drew Pond Maple]

Try a sap puller (guzzler) from maple guys. I think about $550 and small mainline. 1/2" or 3/4". I'd prefer the 3/4" so you could use saddles. I've had mine up to 18" hg. Alot better than gravity, and with 3-4 taps per lateral you should get decent vac at the tap. I agree with morningstar on the storage if you decide to go the vacuum route, at least 100 gallons. My reds were real tough to give up sap on gravity last year so I got me one of those guzzler things. Good luck Bill

[lyford]

I'm in a similar situation right now, mostly reds and for near future tap count wont exceed 50-65 taps. If I were to set my self up with one of the guzzlers what am i looking at in terms or start up costs. Do I just need the guzzler and tubing w/taps or is there more. Probbaly gonna go with buckets at least for the 2014 season but would definitely like to get as much from my reds as possible and it seems like vacuum is the best route for that. One other question, with these guzzlers just how far can the furthest tap be from the pump.

[Drew Pond Maple]

I'm in a similar situation right now, mostly reds and for near future tap count wont exceed 50-65 taps. If I were to set my self up with one of the guzzlers what am i looking at in terms or start up costs. Do I just need the guzzler and tubing w/taps or is there more. Probbaly gonna go with buckets at least for the 2014 season but would definitely like to get as much from my reds as possible and it seems like vacuum is the best route for that. One other question, with these guzzlers just how far can the furthest tap be from the pump.You will need pump, mainline, wire, 5/16" tube, all the fittings and 120v. As far as length, a couple thousand feet, but not 100% sure. Mine will be 1200' with 3 branch mainlines and 120-160 taps

[Cindee]

Hello, hopefully you can help us with this gravity situation. We have a small ridge with beautiful maples a mix of the reds and sugars. I would estimate approximately 8 trees. Because of the slope we only tap the 2 at the top because of the deep snow after trying it once on that slope we stopped. So, we thought of natural gravity. After reading your article I am assuming we pick a tree in the middle of the slope and put a plastic T and tie in 2 other trees or can we hook all on one line? Thanks for any help and advice. We plan on running the tubing down to a plastic drum positioned off the ground so when we pull up with the sap buggy we can just transfer it over.

[steve J]

Another consideration is the new 3/16th line that Proctor research has been experimenting with. If the slope is steep it will create a natural vaccume that will rival sophisticated systems. I have just set up such a system and will not know how well it works until this March. All the info for this is in another thread here on Maple Trader.

[morningstarfarm]

How much slope does the 3/16 require? And how many taps can you run into it?

[bowhunter]

Here's link to the research on 3/16 inch tubing. http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc/highvacuum.pdf

[farmall h]

Cindee. Yes. Get yourself a roll of 5/16 maple tubing. Lets see now. 8 trees..depending on the size of the tree...get 16 plastic spouts (2 for each tree). Purchase two "end loop" connectors in order to anchor your tubing to the top and bottom tree(where your collection drum will be). You should buy at least 24 "T's" in order to connect into your 5/16" "mainline". Your now ready to set up your lines. Take a look at a YouTube vid that shows how to set your taps and connect into the main line.

[Ryan August]

Farmall H

You suggest checking youtube. I have player around there and have found nothing great. Do you have any suggestions of videos you have seen that you felt highly off. Yes, there are plenty, but again i have not found anything great for the first timer. Hey theres a weekend project for some one. Shoot a video for the rookie tubing runner and post it.

[farmall h]

Maybe I will get something done this weekend and have my son post it on you tube ...he's the 13 yr old techy..I'' just do the grunt work. :)

[Ryan August]

farmall h

Hey that would be great! i was just throwing out a wise *** comment but I am sure many would appreciate a well detialed totorial. I hope you production and editing man is up to the job

[farmall h]

Ryan, no offense taken. I would have never thought of that. My daughter actually posted one awhile back. Kinda funny. Type in: Death threats to a woodpecker. :lol:

[Cindee]

Hi,
Thank you very much for your help, we appreciate it instead of buying a bunch of stuff we wouldn't need. Can we tap now before the snow really gets deep out there?

Happy Holidays

[farmall h]

Cindee, you certainly can run your lines but I wouldn't tap any trees until maybe the first week of March (maybe last week of Febuary).