Anyone build their own autodraw off?

[DaveB]

A couple of years ago I picked up all the parts I needed to build a homemade auto draw off but my lack of skills led to failure and so the project got set aside and I've never gotten it to work. If there is a fellow trader who has built one and would be willing to make a few bucks by putting mine together, could they PM me? I have the controller unit, valve, switches and housing. I'm hoping I can hook up with someone before the season starts for me in early March.

Thanks!

[CharlieVT]

I built an auto-drawoff using information found on this site. If you are capable of posting pics of your components and specs for them, we might be able to talk you through assembly.
That way others might be able to learn from your step by step assembly.

The posts by DIY auto drawoff builders have basically listed the components they used, but didn't describe how they hooked everything up.
If you don't have the ability to post pics of your components, you are welcome to send me a PM on this site, I might be able to help.

[DaveB]

I built an auto-drawoff using information found on this site. If you are capable of posting pics of your components and specs for them, we might be able to talk you through assembly.
That way others might be able to learn from your step by step assembly.

The posts by DIY auto drawoff builders have basically listed the components they used, but didn't describe how they hooked everything up.
If you don't have the ability to post pics of your components, you are welcome to send me a PM on this site, I might be able to help.

Well, I could try that. If I can help some others, it would be worth it. Worst case scenario is that I wind up buying a commercial unit next spring. I'm trying to automate what I can while I'm at the sugarhouse.

When I have time, I'll take all the components I have and if folks promise not laugh at my progress, I'll post pictures to solicit the next steps.

[DaveB]

OK, I finally had time to pull out what I had built using the info in another post. I'm attaching two pictures, one of the unit powered on and one of the wiring on the controller. Not being very good with wiring I had a friend who now lives in another state put it together for me so this is not my work.

As I said, the unit powers up. There is a click then a hum on the valve. From what I know, the top reading is supposed to be the probe temperature. It doesn't seem to change. When I opened it up, there was some rust on one of the probe wiring post but I replaced that with a new screw. It still does the same thing. The bottom value is supposed to be the set point but even if I set it match or go below the current temp, it does nothing to valve. I would think that it would release and open.

So there it is guys - any suggestions on what may be wrong?

81818182

[lpakiz]

I messed around with these PID controllers some. Just hooking it up correctly is a piece of cake. Programming the controller is harder than Chinese arithmetic. These controllers will do about 5000 different things, 2000 at the same time. If you don't have the programming instructions, you'll have to get them.
I can tell you that PV means process value, that is, the actual temp of the probe.
SV means set value. That is the temp ( or other value) you select to determine when the PID controller will react.
One of the first items you must program in is the type of probe or thermocouple you are using. If this is correct, the PV should react to temp changes, like the heat of your hand.

[CharlieVT]

Okay, looks like one of the Auberins controllers, their documentation is readily available online. I can't tell from your pic so you need to determine what model you have. There are some differences in how the outputs work between models.
1) Look on your PID controller for a model number.
2) Go to this page and find your controller : http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
3) When you find your model, click on that corresponding model description on the Auberins.com page and scroll to the bottom of the description of that particular model. You'll find a link that says: "click here to download instruction manual."

Other things you need to know in order to program the PID Controller correctly:
1) what type of temperature probe do you have? Is it a RTD sensor or a Thermocouple sensor? The PID Controller needs to be programmed correctly for the type of sensor.
2) What voltage is required by you solenoid valve? Is it 12volt or 120volt? Depending on your model of PID controller you have, you need to wire so that the PID Controller output relay (whether it is a mechanical relay or solid state relay (SSR)) is switching on and off the correct voltage for you solenoid valve.

It is necessary to read and understand the PID Controller instruction manual and that does take some time. (I like the Chinese arithmetic analogy). But once properly set up there isn't any need to reprogram the controller. You will only need to set your desired drawoff temp using the up/down arrows on the front of the controller.

Bells and whistles can easily be added like a high temp alarm, second temperature probe and drawoff valve if you rotate draw off sides, etc.

It looks like you have everything you need. You just need to make sure it is wired correctly and the controller programed correctly. One exception to this might be if you have a 12v solenoid valve, you may need a transformer to give you 12v from your 120v power supply.

If you are really stumped with programming, and want to get the unit to me, I can take a crack at getting it programmed. I'd want the original documentation for the temp probe and the solenoid valve as that would save time. If you think you want that kind of help, send me a private msg on this site so we can take the conversation off line. I'd check wiring and programming for you, wouldn't take too long since I've already deciphered that version of Chinese Arithmetic. I'd want you to pay shipping and the cost of any parts that might be needed, but I don't think you'll need any. My time donated as a pay-it-forward opportunity.



OK, I finally had time to pull out what I had built using the info in another post. I'm attaching two pictures, one of the unit powered on and one of the wiring on the controller. Not being very good with wiring I had a friend who now lives in another state put it together for me so this is not my work.

As I said, the unit powers up. There is a click then a hum on the valve. From what I know, the top reading is supposed to be the probe temperature. It doesn't seem to change. When I opened it up, there was some rust on one of the probe wiring post but I replaced that with a new screw. It still does the same thing. The bottom value is supposed to be the set point but even if I set it match or go below the current temp, it does nothing to valve. I would think that it would release and open.

So there it is guys - any suggestions on what may be wrong?

81818182

[DaveB]

I messed around with these PID controllers some. Just hooking it up correctly is a piece of cake. Programming the controller is harder than Chinese arithmetic. These controllers will do about 5000 different things, 2000 at the same time. If you don't have the programming instructions, you'll have to get them.
I can tell you that PV means process value, that is, the actual temp of the probe.
SV means set value. That is the temp ( or other value) you select to determine when the PID controller will react.
One of the first items you must program in is the type of probe or thermocouple you are using. If this is correct, the PV should react to temp changes, like the heat of your hand.

Thanks for that....a step in the right direction!

OK, I have the instructions:

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362%20instruction%201.6.pdf

It looks like a need to set a mode but perhaps I'm wrong. What would be my next steps? I'm guessing I have to set a mode, then set things like units but I really don't know where to start so I'm hoping that someone who's done this before might have some direction for me.

[lpakiz]

Charlie VT, that is an incredibly generous offer!! Dave, you owe that man a beer(s).

[DaveB]

Thanks for the help guys. I powered on the unit, clicked set and changed to code to 0089 which allowed me to program the unit. For the input type I changed it to P10.0 for tenths of a degree. This gave me the values that I needed but the PV reading was EEEE so there must be an issue with either the probe or the connection. I'll try checking the connections tomorrow and see if that changes anything.

BTW, if I can get this working, I'd like to fully document the process and the wiring so if anyone like me wants to do this, they can.

[lpakiz]

Dave, did you tell the controller what kind of probe you were using ? You apparently set it for a PT100. Hopefully this is the one you have. You might try skipping the tenths for now, and see if that helps. I thought I read somewhere that the controller would not read a PT100 in tenths when in Farenheit, but it would in Celcius.

I also think I remember that you have to set the range of the probe, (or the controller?), so it knows what range the probe is capable of reporting,

[DaveB]

Dave, did you tell the controller what kind of probe you were using ? You apparently set it for a PT100. Hopefully this is the one you have. You might try skipping the tenths for now, and see if that helps. I thought I read somewhere that the controller would not read a PT100 in tenths when in Farenheit, but it would in Celcius.

I also think I remember that you have to set the range of the probe, (or the controller?), so it knows what range the probe is capable of reporting,

OK, thanks for those suggestions. I'll try that as well. Here is the probe that I have:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTD-PT100-Temperature-Control-Sensor-Probe-Thermocouple-Platinum-Resistance-/121098643270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320aa746

It's unclear to me if it's an RTD or Thermocouple but the setting seems to be the same. I'll try setting it to PT100 and see if that works. The range on the instructions shows tenths of a degree in both °C or °F but we'll see. It gives me something else to check.

[CharlieVT]

From the eBay add it Looks to me that it is an RTD PT100 probe with a temp range of -58 to 752 °F (-50 to 400 °C)
The eBay listing uses the term "thermocouple" which adds a little confusion.

From the PID controller instructions you would set parameter IntY (input sensor type) to P10.0 although setting P100 might work as well. The instructions state that the initial /default setting for parameter IntY is "K" which is for a type K thermocouple. So you would need to change the IntY parameter for your RTD probe; the controller wouldn't work correctly if you were using a RTD probe but were programmed for a type K thermocouple.




OK, thanks for those suggestions. I'll try that as well. Here is the probe that I have:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTD-PT100-Temperature-Control-Sensor-Probe-Thermocouple-Platinum-Resistance-/121098643270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320aa746

It's unclear to me if it's an RTD or Thermocouple but the setting seems to be the same. I'll try setting it to PT100 and see if that works. The range on the instructions shows tenths of a degree in both °C or °F but we'll see. It gives me something else to check.

[DaveB]

This morning I tried cleaning the post where one of the wires was rusted on the controller and I'm still getting EEEE. The instructions say that this is an input error so either the probe is not working or it's not wired correctly. One of the things that I noticed was that the probe I have has a red, blue and yellow wire. The instructions don't mention that so I'm not sure which post they need to be on. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this probe? I bought it based on someone else's suggestion and I'll try to look at my notes to see what they told me but I thought I would post an update.

[CharlieVT]

From the manual: For a three-wire RTD with standard DIN color code, the two red wires should be connected to the terminals 9 and 10. The white wire should be connected to terminal 8.

Since your sensor doesn't match these instructions you need to determine which wire should go to terminal 8. The remaining two wires can be connected terminals 9 and 10 without regard to color.

Do you have a VOM or multitester that you can measure resistance with? If you do, disconnect the probe connections and measure resistance between the leads. When find the combination of the two leads that has zero resistance, connect those two leads to terminals 9 and 10. Connect the other lead to terminal 8.

If you do not have a VOM/multitester, use the trial and error method:

1st) check that the 3 leads from the sensor are connected to terminals 8, 9, and 10.
2nd) switch the leads that are connected to terminals 8 and 9, then retest your controller. If you are still getting an error, then switch the leads between terminals 8 and 10 and check again. One of those combinations should work.

Another way to describe the trial and error method: You have a red, a blue, and a yellow lead on the sensor, correct?
See which color lead is presently attached to terminal 8. Don't worry about the relationship of what colors are attached to terminals 9 and 10 just as long as the other two sensor wires are connected to 9 and 10 and not somewhere else on the PID Controller.

Try moving each of the other two color leads to terminal 8. One of those combinations should work.
Basically you are going to try each color lead attached to terminal 8 with other two leads connected to terminals 9 and 10. If you get the correct lead attached to terminal 8, the relationship of the other two leads to terminals 9 and 10 won't matter.

HTH






This morning I tried cleaning the post where one of the wires was rusted on the controller and I'm still getting EEEE. The instructions say that this is an input error so either the probe is not working or it's not wired correctly. One of the things that I noticed was that the probe I have has a red, blue and yellow wire. The instructions don't mention that so I'm not sure which post they need to be on. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with this probe? I bought it based on someone else's suggestion and I'll try to look at my notes to see what they told me but I thought I would post an update.

[DaveB]

I did some online research with folks using the same probe/controller combination and confirmed that I had it wired incorrectly. Once I had the wires connected correctly, I was getting proper temperature readings. I then started to play around with the settings to control the opening and closing of the valve. That took some trial and error but I eventually go everything working! This will be a huge addition for me next year. One thing I think I might do is put a Y on my draw off valve so I can still draw off manually if needed.

I'd like to take a minute to document everything I used to build my unit in case anyone else wants to build one and has a hard time figuring it out. I found lots of information on how to put it together but the last few steps of programming the unit were absent. I know each controller is different, but here is mine:

This is the controller unit the I purchased:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=106

There are many temperature probes available but the RTD were the most recommended. Mine came with the three wires: red, blue & yellow which didn't match up with the instructions for the controller but see below for wiring instructions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTD-PT100-Temperature-Control-Sensor-Probe-Thermocouple-Platinum-Resistance-/121098643270?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c320aa746

In addition to toggle power switch (http://www.hardwarestore.com/toggle-switch-230532.aspx) and a push button on/off switch (http://www.hardwarestore.com/push-switch-234633.aspx) for the valve, I purchased a Carlon junction box (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-4-in-x-4-in-Junction-Box-E987NR/100404095?N=bohnZ1z116nv#.UqOEaOJYFtE) to house everything. I also purchased some hookup wire (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062647), connectors, terminals (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103906) and a terminal block (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=18153646) at Radio Shack to connect everything up. To power the unit, I used a simple extension cord (http://www.hardwarestore.com/extension-cord-662082.aspx), cut and then connection to the controller. It was simple and cheap.

I cut holes in the top of the Carlon box for the controller and switches. I then fashioned a small wooden block to attach to one of the sides to secure the terminal block. I thought that was the easiest way to connect everything up. I then worked with a friend of mine who is an engineer to connect everything. This is why I can't speak to the specifics of wiring the switches. Most of this info I got from others here but some of it I had to figure out on my own. Most of the wiring went to the terminal block and then to the controller with the exception of the thermometer probe. I also drilled holes for the valve control wires, thermometer probe and power to come out. Here is what is connected to what post on the controller:

1: 110v positive =black power/hot wire
2: 110v neutral = white wire
8: Red Thermocouple wire
9: Blue Thermocouple wire
10: Yellow Thermocouple wire
13: 110v positive =black power/hot wire (connected to same terminal as #1)
14: Wired to valve

Once everything was wired, I powered it on.

When the controller unit came on, I needed to program it. To do this, I followed the instructions and advice I found here. Here are the instructions for the controller listed above:

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2362%20instruction%201.6.pdf

When the unit powers on, press the Set button. Use the > arrow to go over to the second digit and press the \/ button till it reads 8. Use the > key and do the same for last digit until it reads 0089 and press set again.

Press the \/ arrow until it reads Inty and press Set. Press the \/ until it reads P10.0 and press Set again.

Press the \/ arrow until the unit reads Outy and press Set. Press \/ until it reads 3 and press Set again.

Press the \/ arrow until the unit reads Rd and press Set. Press \/ until it reads 1 and press Set again.

Press the \/ arrow until the unit reads End and press Set.

Those are the three values that I needed to set. I then verified the operation by setting a temperature higher than the current reading and warming the probe until the PV reading was the same as the SV value and heard the valve click because it was open.

I hope that helps and I'm sure I've missed something but I wanted others to know my success and I'd be glad to help

A big THANK YOU to Charlie and lpakiz for their assistance the past couple of days and to those that gave me the specs a couple of years ago to start putting it together.

Good luck to anyone else!

[CharlieVT]

Dave,
Congrats on getting it running. Yes, you definitely want a "Y" or "T" at the draw off for a manual bypass of the solenoid valve.

Another helpful feature would be to add a 120v buzzer as a high temp alarm.
Something like this:
http://www.ledandon.com/panel-mount/LD-2837-411.html?gclid=CI_ws7aMn7sCFe5j7Aod1EkAgA

I run a 4x10 by myself, and sometimes when it is late and I am tired I start to lose focus. If for some reason your draw off valve isn't working or your pan feed gets low, it is nice to have a buzzer alarm you to the fact that things are getting hot in the syrup pan. It has saved my pan a couple of times.....

[Birddog]

Thanks for posting this info - it might be here and I'm not seeing it but what did you use for a valve?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[DaveB]

Thanks for posting this info - it might be here and I'm not seeing it but what did you use for a valve?


Hi Larry,

I guess I missed that. I couldn't find the exact valve that I used (I ordered everything a couple of years ago) but this valve appears to be very similar to what I ordered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-110-120-VAC-Water-Air-Fuels-VITON-STAINLESS-S21V-/290886010025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ba2844a9

[lpakiz]

Dave,
Here is a pic 8184of my draw off valve configuration.

Manual/emergency/sampling valve to left of tee.
To the right of the tee, first a throttling valve, to slow down the flow during the draw. Extreme right is the actual valve that is opened by the PID. Both barbed fittings have hoses to direct syrup into the draw off container.

[jmayerl]

Very nice Dave, is the temp probe long enough? What's your total cost?

[CharlieVT]

I wonder if the temperature specs on the valve need to be considered. Syrup draw off temps are >210 degrees F. The temperature specs for the valve listed in the eBay listing are less than that (25 to 175° F from the eBay listing).

I think that the valve seal material should be rated as food grade and have a temperature range that includes draw off temps.

The valve shown might work just fine, but I worry about such things. There are posts on this site about sources for valves in some of the other DIY auto-drawoff threads.




Hi Larry,

I guess I missed that. I couldn't find the exact valve that I used (I ordered everything a couple of years ago) but this valve appears to be very similar to what I ordered:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-110-120-Volts-AC-Electric-Brass-Solenoid-Valve-Water-Gas-Air-110-VAC-/290985720258?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c019b9c2

[DaveB]

I wonder if the temperature specs on the valve need to be considered. Syrup draw off temps are >210 degrees F. The temperature specs for the valve listed in the eBay listing are less than that (25 to 175° F from the eBay listing).

I think that the valve seal material should be rated as food grade and have a temperature range that includes draw off temps.

The valve shown might work just fine, but I worry about such things. There are posts on this site about sources for valves in some of the other DIY auto-drawoff threads.

Like I said, that one looks like the valve that I purchased a couple of years ago but it may not be. I purchased it based on the recommendation of a fellow Trader who was building his own. I tried to bring up the original but the link was no longer valid. I'll try and find that original thread and see if there were some discussions regarding the specs then. I would think it would have been more appropriate but if I need to swap it out, I can.

[DaveB]

I took a look and I can't find a specification for the valve that I have. I also saw that the same company has a stainless valve with an upper limit of 265° so that should suffice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-110-120-VAC-Water-Air-Fuels-VITON-STAINLESS-S21V-/290886010025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ba2844a9

I changed the link in my previous post so some one doesn't buy that in the future.

[DaveB]

Very nice Dave, is the temp probe long enough? What's your total cost?

The probe is about as long as my current thermometer probe so I would think that it would work. I'm going to ask the guy who's making my new evaporator to add a thermometer socket so I can have both.

I probably have about $140 in total parts.

[Amber Gold]

I'm looking to build one of these, but without the solenoid valve...just want a wall mounted temperature readout. While going through Auberin's website, I found a float switch (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=324). Has anyone added this to their system, or can it be, and use the same controller? I'm just looking to have it sound a buzzer if the liquid level drops in the flue pan.

Thanks

[Amber Gold]

My parts will be in today, and this is the first electronics project I've done, so I have some questions.
• Do I need distribution strips for the hot, neutral, and ground?
• Should I put a fuse in for the incoming power? The incoming line is on a 20amp breaker, but I'll be wiring the panel with wire not rated for 20 amps.
• What size wire should I use for the wiring?
• Can you post pics of the inside of the controller box? Curious to see how it's set up.

Thanks

[DaveB]

My parts will be in today, and this is the first electronics project I've done, so I have some questions.
• Do I need distribution strips for the hot, neutral, and ground?
• Should I put a fuse in for the incoming power? The incoming line is on a 20amp breaker, but I'll be wiring the panel with wire not rated for 20 amps.
• What size wire should I use for the wiring?
• Can you post pics of the inside of the controller box? Curious to see how it's set up.

Thanks

Hi Josh,

I can only respond with what I have and I hope that helps.

Do I need distribution strips for the hot, neutral, and ground? I only used a two wire setup - no ground. I'm not sure if it matters, but I didn't think the ground mattered and if I recall, I don't think there was a place to connect to the controller.

Should I put a fuse in for the incoming power? I worked with my brother-in-law (he's an engineer) and he added a fuse.

What size wire should I use for the wiring? I'm not sure specifically (when I get to my sugarhouse I can check) but I think he said that he used automotive wiring that was rated for 120v.

Can you post pics of the inside of the controller box? I posted some pictures earlier in the thread. Otherwise, I'll see if I have some different ones that might show it better.

I hope that helps. I have a new valve on order that is rated at 260° and is stainless and I can't wait to try it out. I pick up my new evaporator on 3/8 so I'll have a shorten season but it will be interesting to try it out.

[mountain man maple]

The distribution strips are up to you to use if you have room in your box I would use them for a cleaner look. It doesn't matter the size of wire your using for your project as far as the 20 amp breaker this is to protect wiring on that circuit. I would wire a cord to plug into the wall outlet into draw off control box probably use 16 or 18 gauge sjo cord. 16 or 18 gauge wire should be plenty for control wiring in box also just get wire with a 300 volt rating.Be sure to ground box this is to protect you. Then run hot wire through a fuse which is decided by what your electronics can handle. All neutrals can be tied into neutral wire of power cord.

[DaveB]

The distribution strips are up to you to use if you have room in your box I would use them for a cleaner look. It doesn't matter the size of wire your using for your project as far as the 20 amp breaker this is to protect wiring on that circuit. I would wire a cord to plug into the wall outlet into draw off control box probably use 16 or 18 gauge sjo cord. 16 or 18 gauge wire should be plenty for control wiring in box also just get wire with a 300 volt rating.Be sure to ground box this is to protect you. Then run hot wire through a fuse which is decided by what your electronics can handle. All neutrals can be tied into neutral wire of power cord.

How do you ground a plastic box? the Marcland ones have plastic housings as well and there are only two wires on the solenoid valve so I'm not sure where the ground goes.

[Amber Gold]

Dave, I missed your pic in the beginning of the thread, and thanks for answering my questions.

Does the temp. probe plug into a jack on the box, or did you hard wire it?

Anthony, this is what I bought to power the box. Power cord (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_35&products_id=243), cable plug (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_34&products_id=306), and terminal blocks (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=18153646).

[mountain man maple]

Ok forget grounding box if its plastic. Only applies to metal. I would just run power cord through a watertight cord connector then wire to terminal strip. Not sure about valve to ground you only have two wires and that's hot and neutral. Only thing would be if valve would somehow short hot wire to metal on valve the whole arch could have 120 volts in it. Are wires labeled on valve or just two wires?

[WoodButcher]

the wires are black and white on my valve. standard. i picked up a real nice 1" schneider zone valve rated for steam, 2 way, NC ...i programmed my 2 auber pid's and will have one to monitor stack temps and one for auto draw off.

the stack PID is self-explanatory from the labels, but on the draw off PID i have the main SV set for draw off temp (readout) and another high alarm buzzer set to go off 3deg over SV(draw off temp) just in case i need to increase draw off flow if/when things get hairy. the pt100 RTD is from auber and its 12" long with a 1/4" npt compression fitting, perfect for my angled draw off box port. i noticed many PID posts in the past had trouble finding rtd's long enough. well they got em now on aubers website.

the layout is very similar to Jims from smoky lake , except i added bigger LEDs for more visibility. plus my PIDs are a bit overkill for this application (auber 2352's, not 2362s) , but i am used to programming them as i use the same model for controlling my mash tun, hot liquor tank and brew kettle for making beer. one less manual to read ....

the box is a 12x12x6 watertight box from home depot , although i could have gotten away with a 8x8x4 i think. it doesnt bother me as im installing it this week next to the steam hood, out of the way and just above eye level so i can see it wherever.

i tested the valve, probes, etc with hot water by the sink, all is well. pretty cool stuff. cant wait to run some sap through her

8647

[gearpump]

Does the 2352's auber controller read in .1 of a degree? The drawoff controller I am building now has the 2363 controller because of higher resolution. I really like the idea of the alarm devation on your model instead of just a programmed number.

[WoodButcher]

gear pump.
The 2352 has only one Achilles heel and that is it does not read in tenths of a degree. Only whole degrees. That really doesn't bother me since I draw off heavy by 1 degree or so. I would rather be too thick than too thin and have to reheat. Then after I have about 6 - 10 gallons of finished syrup I just add a little bit of distilled water when I heat it up to bottle , so I can dilute to the proper brix.

the amount of other features the 2352 has like a high deviation alarm and a low deviation alarm among a bunch of other technical options are nice but are not necessarily needed for maple syrup production. I needed the 2352 for beer since the main output terminals 7&8 are controlled by an external SSR which is what I use for a beer.

[WoodButcher]

below is a pic of the bottom of the panel.

originally i used 2352 PIDs since i use them for brewing beer and was familiar with them . i am now convinced the 2362 is the better choice as they are much simpler to use and setup for maple

[lpakiz]

I have an auto draw off and I think the capability to read and adjust temps to the tenth is quite important. Most times, a minor adjustment, up or down, is just 2 tenths. It would be tough fine-tuning in whole degrees. IMHO.
I wholly agree to get enough stack thermocouple wire to put your controller near by, and have enough wire to route it neatly, without draping it over rafters or laying on the hood. I think I have 15 feet and it's not near enough. Remember, the controller doesn't have very big digits, so you need it near the arch door/syrup pan.

[WoodButcher]

2362 is the way to go for maple production. much simpler. i changed my original post so as to not confuse anyone.

in regards to the stack probe.... i just measured and 15' is more than enough for my setup, which is for a 2x6 arch .
i measured 2.5' up to the top of the rafters from the stack probe hole. 6' on top of rafters, 4' down to the box thats eye level, right next to front pan steam hood. = 12.5' . if i ever upgrade i can spend 8$ on more wire since the extension wire needs to be soldered in anyways.
again , this is subjective and will vary with every setup.


update 2-26 : 15' was more than enough to reach the front of the steam hood.

[CharlieVT]

...The 2352 has only one Achilles heel and that is it does not read in tenths of a degree. Only whole degrees...

I have a SYL-2342, which shares the same instruction manual with the SYL-2352 PID, so they proably work the same with respect to temperature settings. If you are willing to change the temperature readout to degrees Celcius, you can set the degrees to tenths of a degree. You can then set draw off temps to tenths of a degree. I find it easier to get my draw off working the way I want when I can adjust the valve opening temperature to tenths of a degree.

In no time, I made the mental adjustment to thinking in degrees C. I also have a little chart mounted on the sugarhouse wall that gives a degrees C to degree F conversion.

[WoodButcher]

If you are willing to change the temperature readout to degrees Celcius, you can set the degrees to tenths of a degree.

hey there charlie... ya i read that about the celcius before i bought and even emailed Frank at Auberins ... silly to have one but not the other, aint it ?
if i run into an issue i will switch it to celcius and give it a shot. thanks .

[lpakiz]

Wood butcher,
Is that extension wire for the probe--special wire for that purpose only? So no ordinary bell wire works? And it must be soldered, no wire nuts, crimp sleeves or other mechanical connections? Can I just add on any amount to the existing probe wires, no extra calibrations or anything?
I can see how a person could mentally convert to Celsius. The temp we use is all relative to whatever the hydrometer says, at least the way I do it. Once your dialed in, the actual number is not that important.
As far as fine- adjusting. Like I mentioned before, throughout the day, any adjustment I made to the draw off temp was only a few tenths, to get the hydrometer to float a little higher or lower. I hope your system with full degrees works for you.
Thanks for posting all this info, I'm sure you helped a bunch of people!

[WoodButcher]

Wood butcher,
Is that extension wire for the probe--special wire for that purpose only? So no ordinary bell wire works? And it must be soldered, no wire nuts, crimp sleeves or other mechanical connections?

hey there. the wire is multistranded. i worry that using any other wire than their own would jeopardize its accuracy (doubtful though...). you can always ask auber. Frank is helpful there.

i soldered mine and wrapped with electrical tape to have a secure connection. it says you can crimp it as well. all i know is it was withing 1degree of my RTD measuring ambient temp in my living room.
i am in conversations currently with auber to see if i can have the same programming abilities with the 2362 for maple as i do with the 2352s for beer. . . tenths of a degree is more my style as its more accurate.

[Amber Gold]

I'm working on my magic box and got the controllers to turn on and the syrup pan temp. to read. Some issues I'm having.
This (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=336)is the probe I have. I set the controller to Pt100, but I get EEEE across the output screen. I leave it on type K, I get a temp. reading, but it's reading in the 1200F range.
How do I calibrate the controller?
How do I wire it for a buzzer? This (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_33&products_id=215)is the buzzer I have. The power comes from the hot lead on the controller, to a toggle switch, to the buzzer. What terminal(s) on the controller do I connect to activate the buzzer? The buzzer has two terminals and I'm assuming one is for the hot lead and the other from the controller to activate it.
Thanks for the help.

[WoodButcher]

first things first. which controller do you have ? the 2352 or 2362?

[Amber Gold]

2362 and some more text because you need a 10 character minimum to post a response. I think this is long enough.

[WoodButcher]

I'm working on my magic box and got the controllers to turn on and the syrup pan temp. to read. Some issues I'm having.
This (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=336)is the probe I have. I set the controller to Pt100, but I get EEEE across the output screen. I leave it on type K, I get a temp. reading, but it's reading in the 1200F range.
How do I calibrate the controller?
How do I wire it for a buzzer? This (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_33&products_id=215)is the buzzer I have. The power comes from the hot lead on the controller, to a toggle switch, to the buzzer. What terminal(s) on the controller do I connect to activate the buzzer? The buzzer has two terminals and I'm assuming one is for the hot lead and the other from the controller to activate it.
Thanks for the help.

EEEE means either the probe is reading a temp out of its range , or there is no input (probe) or wired incorrectly. in other words, if i pull my probe off the quick disconnect while the pid is on , the display will go to eeee. however, i noticed this morning with real cold temps the stack probe display read that and then later today while checking it was fine ...
with the 2362, set the inty to p10.0 for .1 increments and pt100 rtd probe which is what you have. DO NOT set it to k type , as this is the default and your not using a thermocouple. be sure the wiring is correct to the pid. 3 wire RTD should have a white spade clip, and 2 red ones. white to 8 and reds to 9 and 10.

as for the buzzer, the X1 terminal is the hot and X2 is neutral . x1 goes to pid . pid sends 120 signal to buzzer when you designate. same applies for valve. where you put these items depends on your personal configuration and whether your running NC or NO valves, low or high temps alarms, etc .
its all in the manual... i didnt see it until i read it... 3 times.

[Amber Gold]

My probe has three different colored wires...red, white, and I think blue. I assumed the blue is the second red wire when I wired it. I did get a temp. reading, just in the 1200F range at room temp. If I remember correctly, if I set it to P100 or P10.0, I got EEEE's across the screen.

The manuals are confusing to the inexperienced. I think I was wiring it so J1 activated the buzzer. I pulled a hot line from the PID to the buzzer, and connected terminal 5 to the other terminal on the buzzer. Does 1, 4, and 14 need to be jumpered together? My power source is 120V if it makes a difference. Outy is set to 1.

Thanks

[cbmapleguy]

This is awesome guys. I've been toying with the idea of building my own now for a couple of years. I think I'm going to give it a shot.

[gearpump]

I agree this info was all very helpful. Just finished my "magic" box. I have a light hooked up to the valve plug so we can have untrained people watching the evaporator. The plan is to make some kind of plunger valve hooked up to pneumatic valve so it will open and close slowly.


89348935

[Amber Gold]

Temp. probe working, but haven't gotten the high temp. alarm to activate the buzzer.

Also, for the low level alarm, I bought this relay (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_31&products_id=250)and I think this transformer (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103732)to convert from 120V to 12V. What terminals do I use on the relay? My thinking is power to the relay, to the transformer, two wires out to the float box, and I think it's the COM terminal on the relay sends the signal to the buzzer. I was playing with it last night, but didn't get it to work.

[Amber Gold]

Worked on it some more tonight and got the high temp alarm to work. Just need to get the low liquid level alarm working and the magic box will be done.

[DaveB]

Since it looks like I have another week until I'll be boiling, I was thinking about my auto drawoff that I built and I see that you guys added buzzers. Is there an external buzzer that I could add?

This is part of my attempt to improve automation in the sugar house. I've also added a pump and indicator light to my feed tank so I'd know when it gets low and the pump kicks on to transfer sap my my main tank. I thought I buzzer for the drawoff would be appropriate.

[PARKER MAPLE]

Thank you guys for putting me on this awesome product. I order one last week and it arrived FRiday. I have been trying to program it for basically a wall mounted thermometer. I have been reading your posts on here and Have the exact same probe as shown earlier. My controller is a syl1512a.
Can someone help me, I wired it according to the suggestions in this thread. red on 8, and 2 blues on 9 10, It reads EEEE.
NOw if I put the 2 blues on 6 7 It has a reading but I believe its in Celsius. I have a cup of water with another thermometer in it, It is reading 70deg and the probe from new unit is reading 20.7....

Any Ideas as to what I did wrong??
CAn some one walk me through programming this thing..


Thanks a lot
PARKER MAPLE

[PARKER MAPLE]

Never mind guys I read back the the very hard to understand instructions. and found that I had it set on 0 for Celsius 1 is for DEG F
Thanks anyways
PARKER MAPLE

[DaveB]

Hi Parker - I had that same issue and had to play around with which wire was on which post but eventually got it to read. Like you said, I think there was another setting that I needed to make to have it read correctly.

Go back a few pages and see if you can find a post from me. I tried to lay out what I did to make it work. It took me a lot of trial and error. I hope it works out for you!

Dave

[Amber Gold]

Still trying to get the low level alarm to work. On this buzzer, I wired the top left as power in, the terminal below it is the hot lead going to the pan, the comm. terminal activates the buzzer, and I put another lead on the far right terminal for normally closed. If I touch the two leads together, the circuit's complete and the buzzer sounds. If I switch it to the normally open terminal though, it does nothing whether the two leads are touching or not. Basically, if I wire it to NC, the buzzer will always be sounding until the sap level drops, so I want to wire it to the NO terminal, which doesn't appear to be doing anything. Am I missing something?

If I can get this low level alarm to work, I think I may do this for the feed tank as well. Have the alarm sound when the tank reaches a set point to tell me to stop adding wood.

[DaveB]

Still trying to get the low level alarm to work. On this buzzer, I wired the top left as power in, the terminal below it is the hot lead going to the pan, the comm. terminal activates the buzzer, and I put another lead on the far right terminal for normally closed. If I touch the two leads together, the circuit's complete and the buzzer sounds. If I switch it to the normally open terminal though, it does nothing whether the two leads are touching or not. Basically, if I wire it to NC, the buzzer will always be sounding until the sap level drops, so I want to wire it to the NO terminal, which doesn't appear to be doing anything. Am I missing something?

If I can get this low level alarm to work, I think I may do this for the feed tank as well. Have the alarm sound when the tank reaches a set point to tell me to stop adding wood.

I use a float switch that I got at Grainger that I clip to the side of my feed tank and when the tank is low, it switches a pump on in my supply tank. I have a light attached as well so when the pump is going on I have a visual alert. I've used this for a couple of seasons and it seems to work well. It works the opposite of a sump pump.

I'd like to hook up a buzzer to my controller so I know when it is opening - can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Amber Gold]

Look above. I have a link to the buzzer I used. I'll have to look at the controller again to tell you how I wired it.

[cbmapleguy]

I want to add 2 switches to my unit

#1 to control power going to the unit
#2 to control the valve

position 1 - no power going to value (just using the pid as a temp display)
position 2 - power coming from PID (auto draw off)
position 3 - power coming directly from source (so I can force value to stay open)

I am ordering my switches off of auberins.com. can anyone recommend which ones I should buy?

I was thinking SW11 for the basic on/off

But I'm not sure on the 3 position one.

Here's the drawing of my wiring.

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Y_YMYLfShWLmHF3dOAIrXOH2rIoMxhFtLOwHIiLPkbs/edit?pli=1

Thanks

[meadster02]

tonight my pid controller 2362 would not open the valve when it hit the set temp. it worked fine the first night i used it but tonight stopped half way through the boil. It would open if i switched it manualy so the valve is fine. did the controller go bad on me or is something set wrong

[RollinsOrchards]

Still trying to get the low level alarm to work. On this buzzer, I wired the top left as power in, the terminal below it is the hot lead going to the pan, the comm. terminal activates the buzzer, and I put another lead on the far right terminal for normally closed. If I touch the two leads together, the circuit's complete and the buzzer sounds. If I switch it to the normally open terminal though, it does nothing whether the two leads are touching or not. Basically, if I wire it to NC, the buzzer will always be sounding until the sap level drops, so I want to wire it to the NO terminal, which doesn't appear to be doing anything. Am I missing something?

If I can get this low level alarm to work, I think I may do this for the feed tank as well. Have the alarm sound when the tank reaches a set point to tell me to stop adding wood.

The simple fix to that is to use that "always on" signal to operate a relay that runs the buzzer. When the signal goes away your relay will switch. You can then add different colored lights to indicate as well, such as green for one position of relay and red and buzzer for the other position of relay.

[cbmapleguy]

I'm super pumped. All my parts have arrived. I programmed the PID and tested with some boiling water. 211 F yeeha. Turned off alarm two and set the high and low for alarm one.


Just need to finish wiring up the valve and alarm and maybe mother nature will be so kind as to give me some sap so I can test this sucker out.

I'm a little skeptical about the valve for 2 reasons.

1- The spring doesn't seem to have much tension on it. Or will that change when I wire it up? It says the polarity doesn't mater so there won't be any more pressure keeping it closed, right?
2- I'm thinking I will need to keep the f/g grease applied to the rubber gasket and inner workings so the syrup won't weld it together.

9295

[cbmapleguy]

ok.. So I have everything wired up, than I realize I probably need a SS relay to actually use the set value temperature to control the valve instead of using alarm 1 or 2. Is this correct?

I currently have the valve on alarm 1 and the buzzer/light on alarm 2. They both change states according to the highs and lows I have set, but I can't control either states with the set value.

Is there another output control mode I should be using where I can control alarm 1 or 2 with the set value ? I'm currently using 0. I have a SYL-2362A2 PID

Cheer!

[West Sumner Sugar]

I think you can use Alarm control 2. That will trigger the alarm when the syrup reaches and exceeds the set value. That's how it is on my TA4 controller.

[cbmapleguy]

Yeah. I was able to get J2 working with the set value. Had to switch to rd to cooling and I think output mode is 4.

[cbmapleguy]

The draw-off is rocking! Pretty slick and saved myself a thousand bucks plus.

95719572

[cbmapleguy]

Adding some new functionality to the auto draw off.

on / off button
switch to manually open the solenoid valve

10543

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

So I'm building a auto draw right now following the instructions found here and mine is keeping the normal closed valve open no matter what I do. Does any one have a idea what I'm doing wrong?

[cbmapleguy]

sounds like you have a closed circuit going to your valve. can you post pictures of your setup?

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

So black power to #1, white neutral to #2, #13 with a jumper from #1, #14 to valve, other valve to neutral white. Don't mind the k sensor I fried my RTD100 and have to order another. I had several switches but have eliminated them to find the problem

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/23c0f0a5f8d5ac784c8feaadaeb2f096.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/12/10a914dfce0cbc95684e94bbbc680ccb.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/30/2fa88dcf18538837da43b2a0b409e8c8.jpg I finished my auto draw about a week ago. I was fighting with it for a little while but figured it out. All I have to do is figure out how I want to mount it in the sugar house then button it up. I'm super excited and with it costing under $200 how can you go wrong?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[killingworthmaple]

If anyone is making there own auto draw off and need the valve I have 2 used marcland valvles just text me for pictures I am asking 1/2 price from what the sell for new.

Nathan
860-604-8115

[Homestead Maple]

This was added to Auber Instruments product line on March 11, 2016.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=55&products_id=581

[WoodButcher]

Well well. Will you look at that? This will make people's lives so much easier. I worked with those guys for a couple months just to make sure I was ordering the right stuff. Their English is not the best. For anybody looking at this kit, I would make sure that the valve is of good quality with high temperature seals. Personally, if it's a solenoid valve I wouldn't use it since a stainless food grade ball valve is far superior, and doesn't create any wakes from closing too fast.

And another thing: you are going to need a wiring diagram from them. Where to connect the valve, where to connect the LEDs, Etc.

[cbmapleguy]

I don't think the valve is included in the kit.

[WoodButcher]

It looks like you're right. That's better news, so now you can get what you want. I would look on eBay and find a stainless steel ball valve with high temperature EPDM seals