Price per tap

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

I'm looking at a possible lease and was wondering what the average price per tap would be for Maine line laterals with the taps and adapters? The tanks and pumps I can figure just not sure on the tubing prices.

Scott


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[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

It depends on how close together everything is. But the rule of thumb I use is $5-$7 per tap. That includes all fittings, saddles, main, wire and lateral lines. If your woods are spread out a lot, the price will increase, however should not exceed $8-9 per tap. I have some areas with 100 plus trees per acre and in those places the price I hope will be more like $4-6 per tap.

Good luck
Ben

[BreezyHill]

Mains Blk/Blue 1" .24/.27,
1 1/4" .40/.46,
1 1/2" $.54/$.61
CDL High Density
5/16 from $49 to $,54 / 500'
Seasonal taps $.18.

http://www.cdlusa.net/Data/Sites/8/SharedFiles/catalogue-2013-usa.pdf

Good Luck!

Ben

[spud]

I added 1500 taps last season at a cost of $6.00 per tap.

Spud

[PerryFamily]

Rough figures I came up with about $6 as well.

[unc23win]

I agree $5-$6 per tap.

[JoeJ]

Cost per tap for my new woods set up this summer and fall

Vacuum line 540' 3" pvc, 2,305' 2" pvc (one long run)
Wet line 2,845' 1 1/2" pvc
1" Lapierre blue mainline 12,080' (5.81' per tap) 150' spacing
Lapierre semi rigid 5/16 2079 taps
932 saddles (2.23 taps per lateral, longest lateral 80')
Stainless steel fittings

Cost per tap: $9.88 Results: We will see

New vacuum pump 63 CFM

Old woods production for last 4 years (excluding 2012)
Average sap per tap 29.12 gallons
Average syrup per tap .526 gallons per tap

[PerryFamily]

My figure was for gravity, with black pipe, hollow rope ,seasonal spouts and 5 taps per lat.

Joej- was the three taps per lat for a reason? Just curious, @$2+,per saddle it adds up pretty quick.
Just curious.

[spud]

I have talked to JoeJ by way of PM a time or two and his numbers are impressive. Three taps instead of five per lateral line with increase vacuum to each tap hole. If you pull spouts with vacuum on there is a big difference in spout one verse spout five in the line. I only wish I knew this before setting up my main woods. When I set up my new woods I will be using 1 1/4 mainlines and only 3 taps per lateral line. I hope JoeJ keeps us posted on his numbers this coming season. Best to all.

Spud

[JoeJ]

PerryFamily,

There is a Proctor Research paper that I could not find yet, that has a graph showing the vacuum loss from, I think 1 to 10 taps.
If I remember correctly, the loss after 3 taps per lateral was pretty substantial.

Joe

[spud]

PerryFamily,

There is a Proctor Research paper that I could not find yet, that has a graph showing the vacuum loss from, I think 1 to 10 taps.
If I remember correctly, the loss after 3 taps per lateral was pretty substantial.

Joe

If you go to the PMRC site and click on ( Sap and Vacuum Dynamics ).

Spud

[PerryFamily]

Joe and Spud- Thanks for the link and the info. I really enjoy reading the real world statistics of producers.

Would it be safe to assume that the "strive for 5 " is the best "compromise " as far as cost vs vac transfer ?

Hopefully you understand my question.

Plus at $9 a tap and getting a 1/2 gallon of syrup ($24 +/-) it sounds like it will pay for itself half way into its first season?

Great info thanks

[spud]

I think what you're saying is right on. The strive for five is probably the best compromise although it is possible to get more sap per tap. In the PMRC chart it shows that a one tap lateral line gave the most sap but not by much. It talks about the more taps per lateral line the less vacuum transfer you will get. I do know that when I pull spouts with the vacuum on the first three spouts have a lot of suction but the last two drop off. It was so noticeable that I kick myself for having five taps per line. In time I plan to double my amount of main lines so I can cut my lateral lines in half. I would love to have 2-3 taps on all my lateral lines in the next few years. Yes I get 25 gallons per tap now but I would like 30 gallon per tap like JoeJ does. That would give me 32,500 more gallons of sap per year. That could be another 700 gallons of syrup. I have never been to JoeJ woods but someday if I do I am sure I will learn a bunch. I am just trying to get better each year.

Spud

[Starting Small]

PerryFamily,

There is a Proctor Research paper that I could not find yet, that has a graph showing the vacuum loss from, I think 1 to 10 taps.
If I remember correctly, the loss after 3 taps per lateral was pretty substantial.

Joe
Joe-Do you have ladders in your system, if so how many feet and do you notice much vac loss from them?
-Dave

[JoeJ]

Thanks Spud for finding the graph on taps per lateral. I hope that this post does not get too long
My new woods. 2079 taps used 96 rolls of tubing. 21.65 taps per roll to get an average of 2.23 taps per lateral
If you go to 5 taps per lateral, it is common to get 30 taps per roll. So to install 2079 taps, I would have used 69 rolls and saved 27 at a cost of $50. = $1,350 savings
I would then save 1/2 of the saddles 466 @ $2.07 for a saving of $964. Added to the $1,350 saved on the tubing for a total of $2,314.

I would expect to get at least 25 gal per tap x 2079 = 51975 gallons of sap According to the PMRC graph, you get 5% more sap by going from 5 per lateral to 3 per lateral.
51975 gallons x 5% = 2,598 gallons of extra sap. 2,598 gal of 1.7% sap = 52 gal of syrup x $30.00 bulk = $1,560. gained by going from 5 to 3 taps per lateral

The added cost in tubing and saddles was $2,314. divided by the additional income $1,560. = 1.48 years to recover the cost. Over the 10 year life of the tubing, 10 - 1.48 = 8.51
times the additional income of $1,560. = $13,286. by going to only 3 taps per lateral.

So, at this point in time, I was able financially to put in the extra $2,300 to get down to 2.23 taps per lateral

[JoeJ]

Joe-Do you have ladders in your system, if so how many feet and do you notice much vac loss from them?
-Dave

Dave,
4 years ago I had 3 sap ladders using star fittings, 14', 6' and a 4'. I noticed a 1" to 2" drop in vacuum, but quite a bit of sap loss from frozen ladders.
I eliminated the 4' ladder by raising the first 12 taps on the mainline a resetting the mainline at 1%. Works fine. I got rid of the 14' tubing lift by purchasing
a Leader lift tank that I used for 3 season's with a lot of freezing issues. I finally purchased a Lapierre reverse slope lift and put it in a 30" x 30" insulated
shed heated with a 60 watt bulb. This worked very well and eliminated 95% of the freezing problems, plus there is no vacuum drop. I now use the Leader lift
tank on the 6' lift with the same freezing problems (no electricity available) but it does better that the.star lift.

Joe

[Sunday Rock Maple]

JoeJ, very impressive results and I also like your thoughts on the number of taps per lat. Could you clarify the 80' max lat with the 150' 1" main spacing? Do you have flat land and run last off both sides of the main (We have some layouts like that).

[JoeJ]

PerryFamily,
As a compromise, I would say that if your finances only allow you to "strive for 5", then that would be fine. However, I would try to personally set the limit at 5 or 6 taps per lateral. The
PMRC chart shows a loss of about 22% on the tenth tap on a lateral. When you are loosing that much production, it doesn't take too long to pay for a roll of tubing.
Too many taps on a lateral results in a lot of vacuum loss and as a result, sap loss.

Joe

.

[JoeJ]

JoeJ, very impressive results and I also like your thoughts on the number of taps per lat. Could you clarify the 80' max lat with the 150' 1" main spacing? Do you have flat land and run last off both sides of the main (We have some layouts like that).
Brian,
My new woods is on a very nice slope of about 7-8% on a 3000' long cresent shaped hill side. I laid out all 16 1" mainlines straight up the hillside off the 1 1/2" wetline 150' apart. I then measured
and flagged the 75' centerline between each mainline and ran the laterals out towards the 75' limit. I know that this layout goes against the suggested method of running your 1"mains across the
slope and the laterals down the slope to the mainlines. However, after laying out the woods on paper using both methods, across the hill with the mains or up the hill with the mains, I figured out
the cost of each method. I found out that the across the hill method would double the cost of the 1" mainline installation and I could not justify that cost. I figure that if I can get the trees in my original woods to produce a 4 year average ( excluding 2012) of over a 1/2 gallon of syrup per tap using a totally mishmashed tubing system that is up the hill, around the hill and everything else, then a very organized tubing system like I laid out for the new 2079 taps should produce at least a 1/2 gallon per tap.

Joe

[spud]

JoeJ,

Thanks for sharing all this information with us. I wish my woods could be set up like yours. I do plan to double my mainlines in time and shorten my lateral lines. What is the smallest tree size you will tap? What is your average sugar content? Do you use the new CV2s spouts? When do you tap? Your information helps me and others in being better sugar maker's. Thank's

Spud

[JoeJ]

Spud,
It is somewhat costly to install a lot of main line to shorten your laterals. In my old woods with 984 taps, I have a little over 14,000' of 3/4"mainline. The good thing about a lot of mainline is short laterals, good vacuum, and the sap gets into the mainline real quick. I have 1.85 taps per lateral there. When I retubed in 2009, I only used a total 14 rolls of tubing for drops and laterals.

I have tapped (and still do) my trees starting at 8". In one section of my woods, I measured 178 trees in 2004. Out of the 178 trees, I has tapped 29 8"-9" trees 16% of the 178 and 15 9"-10" trees, 9% of the 178. The remaining trees I tapped in that section were 10" and over in diameter. I picked out the first 5-8" diameter trees on the list and these trees in 8 growing seasons now average 2.65"
larger in diameter.

The sugar content of the sap from my woods is not very good.
2013 23 boiling days average sugar content 1.56% This year some of the sap at the end of the season was .8%. The lowest I have ever seen.
2012 12 boiling days average sugar content 1.7%
2011 23 boiling days average sugar content 1.62%
2010 23 boiling days average sugar content 1.56%
2009 33 boiling days average sugar content 1.58%
I do use the CV spouts with stubbies

This year was the earliest I have taped, Feb 15 with no run until Fed 26. I usually tap in the third week of Feb.

Joe

[PerryFamily]

WOW, impressive record keeping. I always have great intentions on keeping good records but it seems like I am always in a huge rush.

[spud]

Thanks for the information JoeJ, I thought I was the only person that kept such detailed stats on what I do. I sure have met my match. I wish you the best next sugaring season.

Spud

[unc23win]

I second that very good information and very good record keeping JoeJ. I appreciate you sharing your results. As I am starting to rework a section fo my woods I am working on the some of the same principles it's good to know I am headed in the right direction I am going to at least double the amount of mainlines and hhmm what rhymes good with three? How about three is for me ha ha.