Capacity Boosters?

[syrup2nv]

Looking for "real world" experiences (good/bad) with the installation of a capacity booster in a wet/dry system? When and why would you want to install them? Vacuum in the bush before and after install? Freezing issues?

Last season I had 2000' of 1.5dry/1.25wet with 1750 taps on it. Vacuum gauge @ releaser = 27", Vacuum gauge at last manifold(2000') = 26" (during stong run)

Currently installing 4000' of 1.5/1.25 with an estimation of 2500 taps on it. Running from releaser to another section of my bush.

If I was going to use a capacity booster, where would be the ideal spots to install?

Thanks in advance

[syrup2nv]

Forgot to mention, on the new side the first taps will come into the wet/dry about 2500' out.
On the original side taps enter within 150'.

[spud]

It's recommended that a booster be put in every 1000 feet. In you situation with 2500 feet before you hit your new taps I think I would go every 1250 feet with a booster. Leak checking is one key reason to have a booster in the woods. If you go with a whip system then you will be walking 6000 feet of wet/dry line going to each and every valve. With a booster you just have a few stops with a snow machine or 4 wheeler and your done. Fittings become an issue over time also. If using a manifold or a whip system you will have 8 times as many fittings to install. With that many cuts in your mainlines and wet/dry lines you now have 8 times more of a chance of a major vacuum leak. A booster will also save you money in most cases just on installation cost compared to a manifold or whip system. I have 6 boosters in my woods and they work great.

Spud

[Thad Blaisdell]

I am not a fan of the booster. I know spud has them and swears by them, but not for me. To use them you need a very specific spot otherwise to me the whip manifold is the way to go. I have never been to spuds woods (but plan to) so I am not exactly sure how he used them there or if I would have. But in my woods it just wouldn't work. The booster tank will not increase your vacuum it will just increase capacity just a whisker. To me they are a waste but that is me.

Although just at a glance 4000 feet of conducter....... I would run differently than 1.5/1.25. I would start at a min of 2/1.5 and reduce as I went. I would run the dry line 2 inch for the initial 2500 and then 1.5 for 1000 and then finish 1.25. The wet. 1.5 for 2500 1.25-1000 and then finish in 1 inch. Those are just rough guesses as I don't know the lay of the land. But I would stay big on dry and size down the wet. It may cost a little more but in the end you will be glad you did.

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

I've seen the boosters but I still don't understand the whip can someone post a pic of one?


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[unc23win]

I've seen the boosters but I still don't understand the whip can someone post a pic of one?


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A link to a discussion about The Whip pics on pages 1, 11, and 13 maybe more. http://mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?20932-The-Whip

[BreezyHill]

Thad nailed this one. The issue with a booster/ sap degasser is they freeze. The time it takes to thaw a mas of ice that size is substantial compared to tubing. I built a few to use in a vertical rise vs horizontal with the theory that I would whip to the top to by pass the freezing issue. It worked but found I was running a fair amount of sap in the dry line longer into the day than without a degasser.
On a long run there is no benefit to consecutive units. Once the gas is out of the stream and a consistent flow is established you are at peak transfer. Adding an additional unit will only slow the flow just to have it reenter the tubing and need to regain the speed it already had.

Since the unit has no ability to produce additional vacuum there is no vacuum boosting benefit; unless you have a leak issue or a slope issue that is causing surges in the sap flow. If this is the case then it is time well spent to correct the slope & or leak issues.

To check for leaks; I find it is much quicker and more productive to visually check the flow in the tubing of a line. The colored tubing makes this easy. You are able to check before and after each saddle on a mains to locate the issue rapidly.

Ideal spot for a degasser would be where multiple mains converge and in a sunny location. If there is a prevailing breeze in the bush a section of bubble rap is useful to protect on those mornings that the cool breeze will negate the suns warming affects. The bubble rap lets the heat in and helps to keep it slightly warmer. I found schedule 40 pvc better than 80 as it warmed quicker, and a black painting was also beneficial. If raping with bubble rap the big bubble is best with a shrink rap cover to secure.

Vertical stance worked better than horizontal as you use gravity to direct the flow to the wet line and more of the unit will stay dry so less area for bacterial growth.

If going horizontal get a section of shop vac hose to put on the atv exhaust to thaw them on those 34/36 degree days. I found on those days the lines with boosters were not flowing and those without were. Just to find the degassers were blocked by ice. Took to long to close valves and open up so I just warmed the flow into the unit to clear the ice.

No I don't use them any longer. To time consuming for me. I have removed them all and only have one location that I would consider installing one. It has a 2500' run to the sugar house, several mains converge but the sun is the issue. It is also in a valley and the wind also converges at that location to follow the valley. It is the ideal location except for the lack of sun, being on the north side of the bush on the southern end of the farm.

Ben

[spud]

WOW WOW WOW,

BreezyHill please don't get upset with me but I have to disagree with everything you said. Boosters NEVER fill up with sap unless they are installed wrong. I NEVER have more then 3 inches of sap in the bottom of any booster even on the biggest runs. There is NEVER any restriction of sap or vacuum flow in any of my boosters (ever). The last thing I would ever want to do for leak finding is walk all my lines and watch the sap flow. This would take me 3 day's because I have 15 miles of tubing in my woods. I don't want to walk to every saddle either because I have 1650 of them in my woods. All I do is drive to six boosters and check vacuum and sap flow from each line coming in. If the sap flow is spitting from one line then I know I have a leak on that mainline. If that happens then I just walk the one mainline and check each loop until I find my leak. I'm not sure how you can say it is quicker or more productive to check each lateral line then just drive up to a booster. Either you only have a few hundred taps or you can run like the wind. Booster's save both time and money almost all the time. You also have far less chance of a mainline leak because you have 8 times less fittings on your mainlines. Once you have properly installed boosters you would never go back to whips or manifolds.

Spud

[BreezyHill]

Nothing to get mad over. Just that when the wet line freezes before the bush were does your sap go? Mine stays in the line. Do to elevation changes, sugar house is below majority of the bushes, only segments of the bushes have to be elevated thru ladders.

When I think there may be a leak I get the wheeler and go to the bush. For benefit off tours and may major issue of lines freezing over my brook; I run several most all of my wet lines to the SH. I also am running an extra dry lines to the top bush since it runs for an hour plus after the brook crossings have frozen.
Where I had boosters I whipped.
I totally agree with the cost savings and look forward to your answer.

Spud, you have obviously figured a trick please share.

Ben

[spud]

Ben,

Two years ago I had a wet line freeze right before it entered into the sugarhouse. What was happening was the snow would melt off the sugarhouse roof dripping onto the incoming lines. At night it would turn to ice all over the incoming pipes. What I did was nail two small pieces of plywood together (about 3 feet long and one foot wide)making a V shape and I just rest it on top of all the incoming pipes. I never had a problem again with this. The only other thing I have done was add a backup wet line to some of my boosters. There is two advantages to having a back-up wet line. The first advantage is more vacuum transfer and CFMs to the far ends of the woods. The other is in the event of a freeze up on the main wet line the back-up wet line would take the sap keeping the dry line open for vacuum transfer. I was at a seminar at Leader last year when Brad mentioned that they were advising people to do this. After the seminar I told him that I already did this. My wet/dry lines are all 1 1/2 inch and my back-up wet line is 1 1/4 so it is going to be hard freezing all these up. It is possible your wet line froze up because it was to small (I don't know what size you used). Some people think a one inch wet line even with 2000 taps is ok. Although your sap will flow in a one inch wet line (with 2000 taps) you have a better chance of freezing that little pipe up and you are loosing CFMs to the far ends of the woods.

Spud

[BreezyHill]

Over the years we even had upto a 2" line. They all freeze over the brook. Every time it freezes. My lines are mostly 1" and one 1 1/4" The problem is the brook allows all the cold air to settle to the brook and freezes the lines. All the cold air for about 400 acres settles to the brook.
The use of the larger lines is a good theory...the consolidation of the sap to the bottom of the tubing and moving fast does buy me a little time, but only about 10 min. Funny thing is the line that is last to freeze is the line with ladders. It does have the highest crossing over the brook but spends about 500' next to the brook and only 2% slope; but the micro bubbles step the speed up a bunch and buy me another few minutes...maybe 5 min on average.

I was planning on being at that meeting but I had a customer that needed assistance. Sizing wets is critical to maximum production. Mine are all within limits for the slope. I can tell witch dry lines have flow by using a noncontact infrared temp unit.

So you never have any sap freeze in your degassers?

Thanks!
Ben

[syrup2nv]

Spud,

How do you run your mainlines to your boosters with steep slope?

Once my wet/dry enters the heart of my woods, it turns and goes straight up the middle @ about a 20% or more (1000'). Every 75' I have 3/4" running across the slope at 2-3% on both sides out 500-800'. I have not cut them into the wet/dry yet. I was planning on using Goodrich's manifolds, as I did on my original side. They made it easy for me in leak cheaking as my property has ATV trails throughout. Close the valves on the wet/dry and watch the gauge. If it holds for several mins then on to the next, if it drops off, the walk that mainline checking loops at the saddles.

Thanks