Steam hood instead of cupola?

[Jmsmithy]

Building new Sugarhouse, concrete floor w drains. 16x20' w/ 10x20' wood shed and additional 10' concrete slab in back for sap tanks. This will house my new Leader Patriot drop flue 2x6' w/ ao/au wood fired.

My issue is my builder really at a loss over building correct cupola. We have metal roof going in over trusses. I believe I can get the same, if not more efficient steam venting, utilizing a fitted hood w/ stack straight up and out of the roof...and bag the cupola altogether.

Thoughts????

[Bucket Head]

I don't fully understand why your builder is at a loss on the cupola. You could certainly do the hood and steam stack through the roof. Many sugarhouses have a setup like that and they work well. However, I'm old fashioned, or "traditional", and nothing sets a sugarhouse apart from every other building out there like a cupola does.

Steve

[madmapler]

Personally, I agree with bucket head. I'm currently converting a 36'x24' building into a sugarhouse and although a cupola is'nt absolutely necessary,to me it just is'nt a sugarhouse without one. I'll have an enclosed steam hood over the flue pan but the front pan will stay open. A good measure of steam escapes from the front hood anyway. I like to see steam billowing out of a cupola. You should be able to maybe double up your trusses on either side of the cupola and install headers across the span from one set of trusses to the other.Then attach rafters to the headers to provide the cupola opening. You could also just go with the trusses as planned and still put a cupola on top of it. It'll still vent. Ask your local inspector what he thinks. Its definately possible.

[upsmapleman]

I would save the money and and just do steam hoods unless you need THE LOOK. Much easier to keep a tight sealed leak proof roof with just steam pipes going through. I built mine almost 20 years ago that way and it works just fine. All the new modern sugar houses go that route. Figure if you are paying a carpenter trying to figure the additional cuts, material, labor you could save a bunch. Also it is my feeling with all the new regulations coming down the line, the days of open pans are numbered.

[unc23win]

I am currently building my sugarhouse and my evaporator already has the steam hood and I kinda like the idea of only having 2 pipes out the roof rather than a cupola. Yea a cupola is the traditional look which is cool but the newer evaporators with steam hoods and steam aways and piggy backs and the like don't need a cupola.

However the simplest way to build one seems to be from the trusses up by figuring out how wide and how high you want it and then attach the up rights to the trusses and build a box. Depending on how far apart you trusses are you may or may not need to double them up as was mentioned it is not that much more weight.

[madmapler]

I would save the money and and just do steam hoods unless you need THE LOOK. Much easier to keep a tight sealed leak proof roof with just steam pipes going through. I built mine almost 20 years ago that way and it works just fine. All the new modern sugar houses go that route. Figure if you are paying a carpenter trying to figure the additional cuts, material, labor you could save a bunch. Also it is my feeling with all the new regulations coming down the line, the days of open pans are numbered.

Nobody "needs" the look however in the part of VT. where I live there is a great deal of tourism. My sugarhouse is alongside a major corridor that brings tourists into the state. So the aesthetics although not necessary, are desirable. Any cupola I've ever constructed (and I've built a few) did'nt leak so I dont see any real problem there. The cost of erecting a cupola are negligible and the skill and time required is'nt much either compared to the sugarhouse "look" you'll achieve should you want that. There are a lot of people out there who are building "new modern" sugarhouses with cupolas and I'm happy to see it.There certainly is enough steel and prefab boxes appearing on the scene and although it may understandably be a cost factor for some, it does'nt do much for the scenery. They still serve a function because steam still escapes. As far as evaporators being completely sealed from the environment in which they're contained, I'm sure that will happen as soon as commercial kitchens are required to do the same. You can't cook very well without keeping an eye on what it is you're cooking. All the new regulations are geared toward maintaining a clean,sanitary environment as they should be and honestly, who really knows whats going to happen and when?

[GeneralStark]

I'm skipping the cupola on my new sugarhouse. Hoods on both the flue and syrup pans and steam pipe straight up through the roof. Sure cupolas look nice and traditional and all that, but the functionality of the hoods and steam pipes is pretty hard to beat in terms of cleanliness and efficiency.

In terms of regulations, the VT Sugarmaker's voluntary certification program does not specify anything in regards to cupola vs pipes, but it is quite clear in regards to keeping critters out of the building. Clearly a cupola can be one more easy entry for wildlife, and I have been in quite a few sugarhouses where the cupola does not effectively shut. Sure, this program is voluntary for now, but I suspect that over time more and more customers will shift to producers that participate.

[BreezyHill]

GS is spot on. Vermin segregation is a must. The other issue is the draft issue and its affect on the exterior side of the evaporator. The more drafty the sugar house the lower your boiling rate will be. Cold air seeping in around doors and other minor openings will be pulled up past the evaporator due to natural draft movements. The use of a cupola will only intensify this with the steam rushing up and pulling more air past the pan sides.
Hoods increase boiling rate. Have you ever opened a hood to see in? The bubbles will be splashing to the pan top at first and whit in seconds be down to the just above the sap from the cool air rushing in and the loss of vacuum. The hood also will keep your trusses lasting longer since they will not be soaked every day that you are boiling so no need to paint them.

[Dave Y]

While cupola's look nice ,I think stainless steam pipes are attractive also. They are definitely distinctive.

[Thad Blaisdell]

frame in the hole where the cupola should go..... you will be surprised at how much steam is not in the steam stack.

[madmapler]

With all due respect I think the arguement for nixing the cupola over varmint issues is a little weak. I am sure there is plenty of leaky cupolas out there and I could name a few myself. However, such structures may well have leaky doors and windows as well. During the season they can be opened and closed easily with a rope and pulley arrangement and more permanently secured in the off season. Could a bird enter through it while its open? Sure if it cant find an open window or door first. I dont know much about evaporation loss but its really not a deal breaker for me. I'm located in a highly visible location with major tourist traffic.(I'll actually be the first visible sugarhouse in the state)Tourists are drawn to traditional looking buildings and they wont be dissapointed when they stop in and can view the process. The state also encourages traditional construction for the sake of tourism and I support that. Although I respect and value(generally speaking, no pun intended) the thoughts and opinions of those who contribute to this forum, my sugarhouse will have its cupola until the time when my customers find it repulsive or the powers that be deem it unsanitary.:)

[maple flats]

I'm with madmapler, I have a cupola, and the 2 hood stacks vent into it. They are actually suspended in the cupola, and are 2" smaller than the lower hood stacks (hood stacks are 15" and suspended ones are 13"). As I raise the hoods (as a unit) the bigger telescopes over the suspended stacks. Outside, my cupola spews loads of steam. as it should be.

[GeneralStark]

With all due respect I think the arguement for nixing the cupola over varmint issues is a little weak. I am sure there is plenty of leaky cupolas out there and I could name a few myself. However, such structures may well have leaky doors and windows as well. During the season they can be opened and closed easily with a rope and pulley arrangement and more permanently secured in the off season. Could a bird enter through it while its open? Sure if it cant find an open window or door first. I dont know much about evaporation loss but its really not a deal breaker for me. I'm located in a highly visible location with major tourist traffic.(I'll actually be the first visible sugarhouse in the state)Tourists are drawn to traditional looking buildings and they wont be dissapointed when they stop in and can view the process. The state also encourages traditional construction for the sake of tourism and I support that. Although I respect and value(generally speaking, no pun intended) the thoughts and opinions of those who contribute to this forum, my sugarhouse will have its cupola until the time when my customers find it repulsive or the powers that be deem it unsanitary.:)

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that nixing the cupola for varmint issues is the only argument against a cupola. In fact there are many IMO. Including a cupola for tourist attraction seems like a weaker argument to me actually as it is the steam (water vapor) that draws people in, not the venting system on the roof. Good signage would probably be a better investment.

Anyway, I get your point. You like cupolas.

[PerryFamily]

"cupola for varmints " I can tell you for a fact that birds, chipmunks and other unwanted guests can very easily find there way in through the cupola as well as many other areas for sure. According to the VT Voluntary Inspection criteria, this is a very valid and strong ( not weak ) point. I would think steam stacks or a cupola would do the job equally efficiently.

I like the iconic look of a traditional cupola but agree with General, the steam from a effeciently operated evaporator is the big draw.

just an opinion

[Jmsmithy]

Looks like I'll be going the hood route...just easier at this point plus I'm hearing great things from production point. Think I'll get better burn with hoods that seal over pans as opposed to suspended....thoughts? If you suspend how far shove pans do you hang???

[unc23win]

On my oil evaporator the hood on the flue pan is sealed and the pan over the draw off pan is about 5" above the pan. The two hoods are hooked together with latches and then the very front is supported by cable.

[markcasper]

Kind of funny reading all of your posts about cupolas. I for one from Wisconsin can safely say that cupolas are a New England thing. I never knew what one was until I seen them on equipment catalogs. In other words, most people have pipes through the roof in Wisco.

I will tell you that 10 years ago I was in Vermont and visited with Jacques Couture in northern Vermont. Upon asking him about his cupola, he quickly stated that if he did it again there'd be no cupola. And they get a hoard of tourists.