Just because you cut the wood does not mean it is yours!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bruce L]

This is the line that I got today from an individual stealing some of our wood along the road.Late yesterday afternoon my Father started bucking up the maple trees the highway dropped this summer getting ready for road expansion. This morning my wife came back from her bus run and said she saw a red truck in the edge of our bush in near where the wood is. We put the splitter on the back of the tractor, and hooked onto the trailer with another tractor. The guy was just pulling in for his second load when we drove in, and I pulled the tractor right up tight to his truck. I asked him can I help you? , to which he stated he was simply picking up some wood. I told him we had just cut the wood the previous afternoon, to which he replied just because we cut it didn't mean we get it!!!!!!!! I then also explained to him that he was on private property , to which he quickly obliged and took off without any more argument. The nerve of some people!!!!!!

[maple flats]

Some guys just think they can take anything they can see, without asking permission. The bad part is that they see nothing wrong with it. If that happens again, don't buck more than you can process and haul away right then.

[madmapler]

You're too kind. I would have made him bring back what he took or call the cops. I have people helping themselves on my land from time to time too. Its pretty rare to catch'em in the act. Yesterday I stopped by my sugarhouse to find the front door leaning against the exterior wall. Fortunately nothing was missing but thats only because there was'nt really anything to take. Its disheartening to say the least.

[BreezyHill]

All I can say is trail cams. One on the sugar shack entrance the other on the entrance and the other camera and a third on the first two cams. Bolt them to the trees and cable tie them with locks. Now you have evidence that can be used. In my area DEC is setting up cams at deer dump sites, poaching spots and tree stands on private property. If you think you wont have a problem listen to the latest unemployment numbers. Yes scrape is down but something for free booty is more than nothing. Besides you weren't using it. So they take it and catch them if you can.

Its a said what has happened in the last 5 years.

Ben

[Clarkfield Farms]

On the plus side, after a few years of composting they do make fairly good fertilizer.

Thieves are cowards. Few things enrage me more. One of those few is ignorant people with entitlement mentalities.

It's not just the down-and-out. Here at the orchard where I live, there are several extremely well-to-do families. (One home in the cul-de-sac bordering the back of the orchard sold for more than $2 million about 11 years ago.) They come in and steal pumpkins by the wheel barrow load, they strip entire blocks of apples/pears/plums even if they're not ripe. We've caught many over the years and the same attitude: "Yeah? SO? You've got more than you need and you'll never miss this." One, a now-retired dentist, got indignant and walked back to his house and returned with a check for what he thought his load of booty was worth. "There, that oughta cover it," he said. The following Monday my father-in-law went to the guy's practice and in front of patients called the dentist out and said that he was there to take some of the dentist's equipment and he'd write a check for what he thought they it was worth. This was nearly 35 years ago. It still goes on. Always will.

Never did cash that check...

Part of the main orchard is over by the local Lowe's. Every day, EVERY day during harvest season, people walk or drive over and steal apples. For many, it's become a ritual of autumn. While many are immigrants, not all are.

Heck, they've even hauled trees off the property we bought.

Don't get me started on poachers, snowmobilers and other various trespassers. I've even kept a posted sign that reads, "Horseback riding ONLY. No hunters or trappers allowed." This, in the middle of MY property! NOT, "No hunting or trapping," but NO HUNTERS OR TRAPPERS. Not a speck of it is their land.

As long as more than one person is breathing oxygen here, this'll happen.

[maplecrest]

They carry tools and cut the cable and take the trail cam. Or unbolt it. Now using wireless cams on buildings. With e.mail alerts. Audio as well as video. Sold by amazon.com

[madmapler]

The trailcam idea is what I've been considering. I have 1 road entrance and 2 trail entries on my land. Signs that say something like "If you're reading this,you've been photographed" might make a difference. Theres a lot of area to cover if they try to find the cameras.Its not likely they would.

[maple flats]

I also use trail cams. One on each entrance to the sugarhouse and 2 more at my blueberry fields. The latter were put up after I got an unsigned note on my windshield at home, saying someone was stealing my irrigation fittings. I checked and all 2-3 &4" aluminum irrigation fittings were gone. Likely about $1000 worth to replace, but they likely got maybe $50 in scrap, if that. I will no longer get any aluminum fittings, I have switched to drip, but there is still several hundred feet of 2" aluminum in use, before it changes to plastic.
I can't stand stealing or cheating. If my cameras ever catch someone in the act, I will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, and I will try to get my story in the news as a warning to others.

[jmayerl]

I am going to play devils advocate here so everybody thinks a little different. So you say the county dropped the trees for road expansion. If that's the case, weren't the trees then in the counties right of way(here in wisco that is 33 feet from the centerline for state roads) if the trees were in that right of way then they would technically be property of the state.

[red maples]

Like many people I pick up road side wood... but I always ask first. If its a lot of wood I will often stop by sometime with a pint of syrup or some maple candy or something. A nice little gesture like that goes a long way. I had one woman that ended up calling me back(from the label) to get more wood and they bought syrup as well. So win win!!!

[red maples]

In NH we actually own to the center of the road. On town roads that is. If they are trimming trees its usually the utility company. And in NH if its on your property its on your property period. State road or not. although the poles maybe owned by the power company they are just maintaining their wires and poles.

[happy thoughts]

I am going to play devils advocate here so everybody thinks a little different. So you say the county dropped the trees for road expansion. If that's the case, weren't the trees then in the counties right of way(here in wisco that is 33 feet from the centerline for state roads) if the trees were in that right of way then they would technically be property of the state.

As I understand it, right of way is not the same as ownership at least here in PA. Right of way is permission extended by a landowner or deed to some entity like a township or utility, that allows use of a set amount of land for a specific purpose. The township may have right of way for roads, and utilities for power line maintenance. They may cut within the right of way, but if the right of way is on your property, you own the wood. Check your deed map. Like someone else here, we own to the middle of the road and that land is included in the acreage on which we pay taxes.

And to the OP, you were too kind. Times may be tough but that's never an excuse for theft.

[lpakiz]

Jmayerl,
Just to be really accurate, the state (or county) owns varying widths of roadway. Minimum might be 66 feet, but that can extend to a hundred or more, depending on "vision triangles" at intersections, bridge approaches, deep cuts or fills, and actually, it almost always narrows down in front of private drives so that the culvert is on private property. If you look close at some state roads, you can see the yellow ROW posts. The ROW is really a very crooked, zig-zag line and is not even uniform from one side of the road to the other.
We cut plenty of brush and trees on county and state roads. While the Highway Department had the ultimate right to cut anything in the ROW, we always asked permission first and discussed wood removel with the adjacent landowner first. Even tho you pay tax to the middle of the road you do not OWN the property.
The district Highway office maintains ROW maps for all their roads, county and state, so you could accurately tell if the property was private or ROW.
I believe the 66 foot is pretty standard for township roads, tho. I remember my dad using the term "3 rod road" and "4 rod road." A rod is 16 1/2 feet, I think.

[Revi]

We have had a lot of trouble. Our sugarhouse was shot up 5 times by a kid who was "bored". Now we use trail cams, I built a bulletproof box to protect the evap, plate steel on the door and lexan on the windows. We also have trail cams and fencing to keep the two legged varmints out. It's too bad we have to do this, but if we didn't we wouldn't be in business very long. It's a very tough world out there now, and a lot of these people hate to see other people working and feel that some of what us working people have created should be wrecked or stolen to even things out. I am thinking of getting one of those Moise cameras that sends the image up to the cloud, but we probably don't have really good reception where the sugarhouse is. Anyone tried one?

[happy thoughts]

Jmayerl,
Even tho you pay tax to the middle of the road you do not OWN the property.


This is not the case in PA and apparently not in VT either.

http://www.uvm.edu/crs/resources/citizens/right_of_way.pdf


The Public Right-of-Way:

The road in front of your house is probably a public highway, laid out by a formal process involving the town board of selectmen some years ago. Most likely the town doesn't own the land under the highway; probably you own the land to the middle of the road. What the town owns is an easement,.....

...If it cuts down trees, it has to offer you the wood, unless it intends to use the wood to build the road (but then, corduroy roads aren't that popular anymore)......

Public road RoWs cede property for public use but if the road were to be vacated, full title reverts back to the deeded property owner. The entity that maintained the road would not be able or even allowed to sell it to someone else.

A public entity may own the rights to maintain a road for public use or power line and limit what the property owner can do within the ROW but trees within that RoW would still belong to the property owner. Before collecting cut wood along a public road it is best to ask permission from the adjoining property owner.

[PerryW]

I am going to play devils advocate here so everybody thinks a little different. So you say the county dropped the trees for road expansion. If that's the case, weren't the trees then in the counties right of way(here in wisco that is 33 feet from the centerline for state roads) if the trees were in that right of way then they would technically be property of the state.

While interstate highways are owned in fee, by the government, most of the roads in my state are actually only right of ways across private property. The private property extends to the centerline of the road and the property owner is entitled to any wood cut within the ROW.

[rayi]

Here in Mi we also own to the middle of the road. I cut a few trees two years ago and some one was stealing the wood. Wife called the police When the police got there the theif was nice enough to bring the wood up to the house and unload it. Also had a couple city hunters come into may pasture to hunt I was told they could hunt because no one owned the land becasue there was no house on it. Conservation officer set them straight. I usually take deer huning season off just to keep people off the property. Not nearly as bad as the person that parked in my drive way and took a shot at my turkey that does not look like a wild turkey at all. The look on that persons face when he shot and thought the turkey shot back was priceless

[Clarkfield Farms]

Yes it depends on the locale, the municipality or even the way the deed is written or mis-written.

Outside of the northeast, where land is conveyed by metes and bounds survey descriptions, the land is defined by way of "The Rectangular Land Survey System." BUT, the OP is from Canada... My point is this, it all depends on your individual situation.

I can tell you definitively what is and isn't correct HERE, where I live, where I absolutely know the real property laws and their interpretation. But, go to another state and maybe I do, maybe I don't; Canada, though?

All we can do is give you information based on our own understanding, not at all unlike the story of "The Three Blind Men and the Elephant." And if you go by our advice, solicited or otherwise, and we're wrong? If you're of a mind to sue anyone for it, well -- all you'll be able to collect from us is damages in the amount of what we actually charged you. Zip. Zilch. Nada. NOTHING. So, go to your local authorities (each of us, not singling out the OP) and/or your attorney to find out. That, really, is the bottom line for you and for each of us.

[sg5054]

Does any one in Maine know what the rule is?

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

When I was working for DPW we used property pins. From property pin to road was considered town ROW. Any wood we cut in front of someone's house was offered to them first. If they didn't want it we got it. We were not allowed to build ditches behind the pins without land owner permission.

Scott

[Clarkfield Farms]

Again, that's how you did it where you are; LEGALLY, throughout New York State, the right-of-ways are exclusively for the purposes of ingress and egress to the general public over, across or through you lands, as it may apply. Now unfortunately, there are actual "Right-of-Way Takings" that are misnomers since the governing authority involved (Town, County, or State) is actually purchasing those lands, outright, via fee simple deed transactions (the strongest form of ownership in NY and elsewhere); they are still referred to as right-of-ways but are actually OWNED by the government (weird, isn't it, that the State used to have themselves as grantee known as "The People Of The State Of New York," but go ahead and try to walk on some of that property and you'll be trespassing!) and that/those strips of land is/are no longer private property. Those tracts or parcels of land were bought and paid for, it was not simply securing easement rights to those tracts or parcels.

It gets even worse... some surveyors and/or lawyers, depending on who's writing the deed description(s) for private property transactions, will actually only describe and therefore convey to "the highway boundary," even though the previous deed(s) clearly conveyed to the centerline of the road (which is the correct method). It is NOT right, it is not ethical... it's their personal preference ONLY. While you may think it's trivial, it literally creates a spider's web of nightmares from that point forward. Who is in title to that land? Who is responsible for it's maintenance? Our own home and the farm parcel are clear examples of this sort of erroneous practice.

And, yes, a little more: In the case of a parcel which is a fee purchase by the governing authority, and said parcel lies between your property and the highway, ---well, let's use ChicoSap's example and PRESUME that it's an actual fee right-of-way, not the normal, standard, typical you-own-to-the-centerline-but-there's-a-right-of-way-thingy... In this case, you would be what is sometimes referred to as "the upland owner." And in that case, it plays out the way that he describes: It's offered to you with rights of first refusal. HOWEVER, the danger lies in believing that all rights-of-way are the same, rather than as I've outlined above. In the case where the landowner owns to the centerline of the road, it belongs to the landowner. The governing authority has the right and responsibility to maintain the roadways and the rights-of-way, whether by ordinance or by fee purchase. So, they cut the trees and in the first example they "own" them, but in the second case it was their responsibility (and expense) to remove those trees but that's where any "rights" end.

As far as ROW widths, they're generally referred to in terms of rods (16.5 feet). Typically, throughout our area, most roads are 3-rod roads or 49.50', or 24.75 feet either side of center.

It's a lot more involved than this... 4 years of college more involved, lol! And all that money...

Again, ONLY WHAT APPLIES TO YOU AND YOUR PROPERTY MATTERS. The rest is just conversation at best or unsolicited advice at worst. I hope I've just been having conversation. :)

[madmapler]

Theres a lot of discussion about what may or may not be legal in this thread but how about good ol' fashioned ethics. The way I was taught as with the majority of my peers was if it does'nt belong to you then you should simply ask about it. I cant imagine just pulling up to someones property and taking something that does'nt belong to me. I have a friend that picks up a lot of roadside wood but he talks to people and finds out about it first. He's does'nt take anything unless its given to him. Whats wrong with that? If its along the road then as far as I'm concerned, the person who owns the land along the road should at least be asked first no matter what the law may say. We should'nt need laws and regs. to be able to determine whats right and whats wrong. Instead of fashioning whats ethical around whats legal, ethics should fashion legality. In other words even if it is legal it certainly does'nt always make it right. It often times just means a person can get away with it. Oh! and that they're also unethical. The guy who took the wood was wrong and should have asked someone first thus promoting human trust instead of further destroying it.

[bees1st]

I seems they have been doing a lot of trimming this year in my area for power lines . There is wood down in many places , and it all disappears very quickly . Lots of wood chips too . I was in need of some wood chips for my garden path , and was eying a pile on a nearby well traveled road . on a day when I was headed in that direction I threw the shovel in the back of the truck. The chip pile was where a small jeep path came out of the woods next to some other trash that someone hand dumped there. I was merrily filling my truck when another truck pulled in and the driver said , " what the #**# do you think your doing " I was very apologetic , put the chips back . I felt bad for a couple of days . I don't steal , but I guess I was . Now I won't touch a thing until I know . I have bees spread out over a distance of 100 miles , mostly on the edge of fields where hunters frequent . In over 30 years I've only had one incident where I had vandalism . It's not all bad out there.

[madmapler]

We all screw up from time to time. You realized you made a mistake and apologized. Many people who do that kind of thing give you a lot of lip when they get caught. The truth is that some do it because they know that even if they get caught, little if anything will happen as a result. The wood thief still made off with a load of wood.

[bigtreemaple]

So I have a question for those who are using trail cameras to watch things. What good does it do to take a thief's picture unless you recognize who he is? I sell syrup out of my sugar house on the honor system and it has always worked fine until recently when some scum bag has now decided he should steal part of the money from time to time. A trail camera was suggested as a solution but I can't see how that will help unless I know the guy?

[Bruce L]

I haven't been on since I posted the story, have read the posts and realized I should have gotten at least the plate numbers(hindsight is 20/20) after all. My Father didn't think he had gotten much wood, probably sizing it up for his pick up as he had just pulled in ahead of me and was unloading a ramp to roll the blocks into his truck with. I myself have picked up wood along roadways before, but that was in the ditches with the owner's permission, this was nowhere near the ditch as you will see in the attached picture. The individual had to drive through our gateway into the bush as the hydro crew had done ,then drive over 100 yards inside the property fence line to where the maple logs were laying. At the time of this picture you can see the one log left in the top left corner of the picture, centerline of the highway is I would estimate well over 100 feet away. My biggest concern was and still is that once the leaves fall, this same individual or some other low life will spot the sugarhouse another 200 yards in and take a peek for scrap metal or otherwise

[Chicopee Sap Shack]

With the wood at the tree line like that Mr. Firewood taker was in the wrong by far. Common scenes would say that is not in the towns right away.

Scott

[madmapler]

I feel your stress my friend. I hope every time I come into view of my sugarhouse that its the same as I left it. Fortunately it is most of the time. Its no palace for sure. Thats probably a good thing. Looks like I'll be moving my operation to the barn next to my house soon anyway.

[Mark]

80478048[ATTACH=CONFIG]8046

This is in the middle of my bush and have at least a 40 on all sides of this point. A few years ago a local government agency decided I need a survey point in the middle of the bush. They chopped the bark off to carve letters into the sapwood. The nicest tree is in decline. I met with them to ask why they had to do that and the answer I got back is they can do whatever they want and I can't do anything about it. Last month someone was back to repaint them and had my droplines tied in knots which I guess was to keep the out of the paint. A lot of people could care less about other peoples property.

[Shawn]

Bear Trap works good:o

[slybird353]

What? How is that legal? Sounds like agenda 21 to me. Scarey times we live in.

[Algonquin]

What is agenda 21, I'm not being a wise guy , I don't listen to the news, if that's what you call it.

[unc23win]

Are you talking about the UN Agenda 21?

Section II: Conservation and Management of Resources for Development Includes atmospheric protection, combating deforestation, protecting fragile environments, conservation of biological diversity (biodiversity), control of pollution and the management of biotechnology, and radioactive wastes.

No matter why they did it I can't imagine why they would not first notify you they were doing it and second explain why it was being done. The reply you got sounds like the person you asked didn't know why they were perhaps just doing what they were told.

[BreezyHill]

I would suggest checking with your states DEC office. In NY there is a legal way to charge them for the damage of trees. Even ones that are only an inch in diameter at the stump. A customer had a neighbor come across his property line and cut down a dozen mixed trees...didn't want them to shade is property was the reason. The damages were estimated at of $5000, the trespasser had to pay or go to jail.

I am sure you were working on getting certified as organic and this is costing you more time and money and has harmed your efforts to become certified organic...Right.

Good Luck!

[maple flats]

Even if those trees you show are on a property line, they are only allowed to cut marks and paint non crop trees, they are required to put the hash marks on "trash" trees. Any tree with commercial value is not allowed to be degraded. At least this is what I was told in the past. I'm not one to start legal challenges, but I think I'd take that to court. That is insane, unless the marked trees are theirs and you just have permission to tap them.

[lpakiz]

Many law firms have a "First Consult Free" policy. I usually feel that the farther away from a lawyer I can stay, the better. In this case, I might make an exception, just to ask.

[Mark]

Even if those trees you show are on a property line, they are only allowed to cut marks and paint non crop trees, they are required to put the hash marks on "trash" trees. Any tree with commercial value is not allowed to be degraded. At least this is what I was told in the past. I'm not one to start legal challenges, but I think I'd take that to court. That is insane, unless the marked trees are theirs and you just have permission to tap them.

Those trees are in the middle of my sugarbush. I told the DNR that I may want to cut down the tree that is half dead. He said if I did I would be charged with tampering with survey markings. There is a stake with an aluminum disc in the ground that I would never touch, I would have no reason to. In another area they cut down a bunch of trees for GPS reception and one of the trees was a nice 10" hard maple without anything to fill the hole. They wanted me to allow a logger to bulldoze a mile through my woods so they could clear cut 15 acres of maples on the other side of my property. It would involve cutting through about 20 mainlines.

[Thad Blaisdell]

I am sure you were working on getting certified as organic and this is costing you more time and money and has harmed your efforts to become certified organic...Right.

Good Luck!

Now that is a very clever tactic.

[The Sweet Spot]

On a slightly lighter side; We have many great people that come out and help us in trade for syrup. In the fall I came home to find one of our new helpers loading his truck for the second load of the day. He told us it was getting close to winter and he hadn't cut enough wood to get him through. I guess I should be happy that his kids were warm. It's been so cold this winter that I'm still cutting wood.

[David in MI]

Those trees are in the middle of my sugarbush. I told the DNR that I may want to cut down the tree that is half dead. He said if I did I would be charged with tampering with survey markings. There is a stake with an aluminum disc in the ground that I would never touch, I would have no reason to. In another area they cut down a bunch of trees for GPS reception and one of the trees was a nice 10" hard maple without anything to fill the hole. They wanted me to allow a logger to bulldoze a mile through my woods so they could clear cut 15 acres of maples on the other side of my property. It would involve cutting through about 20 mainlines.

Mark, I can't find anything on the net pertaining to the MI DNR doing survey work but even if they are, I don't understand their need to mark a tree in the center of your property. If they're using it for a reference point, wouldn't it be simpler for them to use one closer to the boundary of your property? This just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not doubting you, I just don't get it.

Is this within some sort of State easement? I can't believe the State has the right to do this.... at all.

[Mark]

Mark, I can't find anything on the net pertaining to the MI DNR doing survey work but even if they are, I don't understand their need to mark a tree in the center of your property. If they're using it for a reference point, wouldn't it be simpler for them to use one closer to the boundary of your property? This just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not doubting you, I just don't get it.

Is this within some sort of State easement? I can't believe the State has the right to do this.... at all.
No there is no easement. A section line goes through my bush and that is the 1/4 section marker. It was a calculated location that they decided to mark. They could have put their marker stake in the ground and a post and left it at that. Another area they did a little clear cut for satellite reception for the survey equipment. A nice 10 inch maple was cut down. I asked them if other people get upset when they cut down trees. The answer was yes but they can't do much about it because we are surveyors. There is state land to the west of mine that was clear cut. I thought I owned up to the clear cut but the markers were put 200 feet into the cut. I am now the proud owner of 200 x 1320 feet of young aspen instead of nice hard maple. The government is too big.

I am working my behind off to make money and pay taxes for stuff like this. I have 5000 more taps to put in by the end of the weekend and am completely exhausted. It would be easier to go on disability and collect a government check. Believe it or not I do qualify.

[lpakiz]

Mark,
Have you talked with the sheriff or a lawyer, to know for sure if they have the right to do these things? Are these guys government workers or private, for hire, surveyors?

[regor0]

I think I would have skinned the guy that did that. Up here by Marquette I feel like I'm living in Little California. Last year I went on the township website to find out how much my property taxes were for the year, and there is pictures of my house from all 4 sides and all my buildings.

[DrTimPerkins]

This is in the middle of my bush ....

Although it is very unfortunate that this is located in your sugarbush, these do look like standard survey blazes, and the surveyors do typically have the right to set monuments and blaze line and marker trees. If they wanted to be really nice they could have spoken with you first, or at least explained it to you better when you talked to them. Other than a permanent marker of some type, a proper blaze on a live and healthy tree of decent size is very long-lasting...which is why they do it this way. Generally only surveyors are legally allowed to blaze trees, but under some conditions a forester is allowed to remark an existing blaze.

[Mark]

Although it is very unfortunate that this is located in your sugarbush, these do look like standard survey blazes, and the surveyors do typically have the right to set monuments and blaze line and marker trees. If they wanted to be really nice they could have spoken with you first, or at least explained it to you better when you talked to them. Other than a permanent marker of some type, a proper blaze on a live and healthy tree of decent size is very long-lasting...which is why they do it this way. Generally only surveyors are legally allowed to blaze trees, but under some conditions a forester is allowed to remark an existing blaze.

There were other trees than maple they could have marked and they know exactly what I am doing. They laughed when they told me they cut down a nice maple for satellite reception, and he did use the word "nice" as he showed me the diameter with his hands and smile. It was the only maple with nothing to fill the hole. The could have cut down dozens of there trees and I would have not cared. Also at the end of my driveway they did the same to a maple tree. At the end of the driveway there is a benchmark for elevation. It is a very large concrete cylinder in the ground with a brass marker in the middle with elevation. They could have used that as a reference point since it will be there for hundreds of years. Instead they take 50% of the bark off to carve into the tree that might make it a few years.

The question is can I cut the tree down if it dies? I have been told I would be charged with tampering with a survey mark.

[Ed R]

Mark, Last fall I bought a property in Schoolcraft county and the n.w. corner is a section marked corner as well. There must be 10-15 plastic survey marker plaques in mainly maples as well as blaze marks and ribbons at this corner. This was confusing because despite all these markings I still could not find the actual corner pin. The plastic plaques are starting to grow into the maples so this must have been done over 15 years ago. One of the maples is looking bad and will probably fall into my road in. Its got the same no tamper verbage as well on the plaque so I don't know if I should cut it or deal with it when it falls. On to your situation, If you owned the 200' property when the state had it clear cut I would be contacting the sheriff's office. If you purchased it that way you might have a harder time going after the state. Even if the state or their logger did it unknowingly they still should pay you or the previous owner restitution. You could discuss the section post tree at the same time. I would not let it go.

[Ittiz]

Surveyors favor maples because the last longer I believe. If I were you I'd clearly post your property to keep them off. If it's posted correctly it should be illegal for anyone to walk onto the property without the proper paper work. There was a case in my state (NH) where someone was charged with cultivating marijuana (which he was), but all the evidence was thrown out by the judge because it was determined the Police officer was trespassing when he discovered the plants. Since the cop was breaking the law to obtain the evidence anything he found was not amicable in court.

If your property isn't posted they can pretty much do anything except harvest your resources. The laws in NH tend to favor the person defending their property. Of course the laws in Michigan are different I'm sure. I've seen Youtube videos that don't make the laws in Michigan look good. Like a guy calling the police because of a trespasser only to get arrested himself because he had a gun in his hand when the cop arrived.

[David in MI]

There were other trees than maple they could have marked and they know exactly what I am doing. They laughed when they told me they cut down a nice maple for satellite reception, and he did use the word "nice" as he showed me the diameter with his hands and smile. It was the only maple with nothing to fill the hole. The could have cut down dozens of there trees and I would have not cared. Also at the end of my driveway they did the same to a maple tree. At the end of the driveway there is a benchmark for elevation. It is a very large concrete cylinder in the ground with a brass marker in the middle with elevation. They could have used that as a reference point since it will be there for hundreds of years. Instead they take 50% of the bark off to carve into the tree that might make it a few years.

Post deleted; I linked to a case in another State.

[David in MI]

Post deleted

The surveryors are able to enter your property while performing their duties but remain liable for any damages they cause. See 54.123 in the link below



https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(quwhlg455c2nrwjsrccs5wqa))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-Act-115-of-1976.pdf

[Ittiz]

Post deleted
The surveryors are able to enter your property while performing their duties but remain liable for any damages they cause. See 54.123 in the link below
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(quwhlg455c2nrwjsrccs5wqa))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-Act-115-of-1976.pdf

Wow, as long as you work for the state or the feds you can pretty much do what ever you want in MI?. They tried to pass such bills here in the early 90ies and they failed. I'm not sure the attitude in MI, here there is a sense that unless you post your property anyone has the right to walk across or utilize it for non damaging purposes. So maybe people thought it was unnecessary.

[jake22si]

In NH we actually own to the center of the road. On town roads that is. If they are trimming trees its usually the utility company. And in NH if its on your property its on your property period. State road or not. although the poles maybe owned by the power company they are just maintaining their wires and poles.
I'm not sure about owning to the center of the road? All the plot maps I've seen measure the property to the edge of the road. Power companies maintain but landowners own the property.

[Mark]

I'm not sure about owning to the center of the road? All the plot maps I've seen measure the property to the edge of the road. Power companies maintain but landowners own the property.
Here in Michigan I own to the center of the road but they can do want they want to the 33 feet from center line. The trees are owned by the land owner and if they cut the trees they are the property of the landowner. The local road commission got in hot water for putting a right of way clearing job up for bids to loggers. They ended up in court for selling trees they did not own. They can cut them down but not sell them. They should let the land owner know what is going to happen but don't. If a passer by steals the wood they don't care.
A friend owns land along a highway which has more of a right a way than a side road, 66 feet instead of 33. He had the 66 feet removed from his deed to decrease the acreage to lower taxes.

[KevinS]

Here in Il. they passed a change in the law. the property assessor can now enter your home to appraise it. with or with out your consent or knowledge. I am actually surprised there there have been so few people complain about it.
Maybe they just do not want to be at the top of the list?