Ever thought of buying a Sugarbush "up north"?

[sweetmusicj]

So, this thread is primarily for those like me who live near enough to the metro area where land prices are very high.

I was just reading the story of Wild Country Maple Products and how they bought a 320 acre sugarbush in northern MN and have a 12k tap operation. Has anyone ever looked into trying to find land up north (generally cheaper than in the south) to set up an operation? Have you found it economically feasible or is it rare to find enough of a maple concentration to make it worth it?

On another note, I wonder the best way for one to find land suitable for a sugarbush? I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think a lot of realtors would be thinking of the sugarbush potential of land they are trying to sell and would not market it so (unless that is what it had been used in the past).

The reason I asked is because the story of Wild Country Maple Products is inspirational as they did not inherit that land, but bought it with their own money and made it work. It'd be a dream of mine to get a 1,000 tap operation going around where I'm from and once I was comfortable and gained valuable experience look to buy a plot of land up north to make larger operation (not 12k taps large, but even something around 4-5k would be nice).

Anyways, would be interested in hearing what you all thought.

BTW- I'm new here and posted my intro over in the Sugarhouse forum with a question I had. Been reading a lot on this forum and thank everyone for their posts.

[BreezyHill]

I would think it would be very doable; but to think that a relator would have any idea about tapping...not any of those that I know have a clue. Land is valued off of appraisals that are strictly for the fair market value of the land as relative to land in the area has sold recently.
To find property I would think you would have to find a realtor that you could teach and would be willing to start looking for you. I got an appraisal on some property and it was appraised at $500/ ac," worthless property except for hunting or logging in another 30 years. The removal of the 10 acres affected the building lot of 4.5 ac by $1000 less.

Personnally the key would be to build a business plan and work with a bank or farm credit to secure financing and then start looking at properties to put bids on.

The other alternative would be to put out feelers to find an older tapper that is looking toward retirement. This way you could purchase an already up and running bush with customers.
This has been done successfully in the dairy business and is a great arrangement for both parties. One gets to phase out while a new party gets to learn from a seasoned tapper and grow with the bush.

Great Question!

Ben

[madmapler]

You may already be aware of this but there is land for sale in the classified section of this site.

[Ed R]

I just did buy a piece of heaven in the U.P. of Michigan. I have a small hobby operation in extreme s.e. Mi. My father in law owns 120 acres in the up. Because of health reasons a couple of weeks ago he offered to sell it to me. This past weekend I went up there to really look it over good. Even though there are a lot of maples on the property logistically it would be difficult to set up. I had a back up plan, I had been doing on line research and had a several properties scoped out that looked promising. Last Thursday I had made an appointment with a local realtor to look at those properties, along with any others that had a lot of maple on them. She had three others in mind along with the three I had picked out. Of the three she picked out only one could have made a viable sugar bush. The three I picked out all would have made excellent sugar bushes. One of the three just spoke to me. Its a 28 acre parcel with .25 miles of frontage on a wildlife lake (no fish but there were a bunch of ducks and geese on the lake). The lake is rimmed with big soft maple trees and they were at peak color. Away from the lake it it is loaded with 15-25 inch diam hard maples along with 4-5 monsters that were not logged during the timber boom because they had no log in them. All the trees were nicely spaced and not crowded. I made an offer on Tuesday an it was accepted that afternoon. I will be closing at the end of the month. So do as much of the research as you can online. Photos are your best source of info. Although realtors photos never seem to quite give an accurate sense of what the woods is really like because they never get into the meat and bones of the woods, just the campsite or buildings. Good luck in your search. btw I love the UP and have plans of retiring there someday.

[jmayerl]

Is the going rate still about 1000/acre up there?

[Ed R]

Ya If they have been cut recently that affects the value somewhat.

[sweetmusicj]

I just did buy a piece of heaven in the U.P. of Michigan. I have a small hobby operation in extreme s.e. Mi. My father in law owns 120 acres in the up. Because of health reasons a couple of weeks ago he offered to sell it to me. This past weekend I went up there to really look it over good. Even though there are a lot of maples on the property logistically it would be difficult to set up. I had a back up plan, I had been doing on line research and had a several properties scoped out that looked promising. Last Thursday I had made an appointment with a local realtor to look at those properties, along with any others that had a lot of maple on them. She had three others in mind along with the three I had picked out. Of the three she picked out only one could have made a viable sugar bush. The three I picked out all would have made excellent sugar bushes. One of the three just spoke to me. Its a 28 acre parcel with .25 miles of frontage on a wildlife lake (no fish but there were a bunch of ducks and geese on the lake). The lake is rimmed with big soft maple trees and they were at peak color. Away from the lake it it is loaded with 15-25 inch diam hard maples along with 4-5 monsters that were not logged during the timber boom because they had no log in them. All the trees were nicely spaced and not crowded. I made an offer on Tuesday an it was accepted that afternoon. I will be closing at the end of the month. So do as much of the research as you can online. Photos are your best source of info. Although realtors photos never seem to quite give an accurate sense of what the woods is really like because they never get into the meat and bones of the woods, just the campsite or buildings. Good luck in your search. btw I love the UP and have plans of retiring there someday.

Ed, that's awesome and good luck!

[Brad W Wi]

I did it. I retired up north. Bought a 40 a mile down the road. Built a sugar shack and trails. Down below I started out with 4 pails and worked up to 50. I moved up here and went bigger with 400. Not a large operation but it's always fun and not over whelming. I've got trees where I could go a lot bigger but than it would be a job. It can be done but try to have as much cash on hand as bank interest will kill any dream.

[Revi]

When I think of "up North" I think of Northern Maine. We had a tour of the biggest operations in the world. Some had way over 100,000 taps and were at the upper limit of maples at over 2000 feet near Jackman, Maine. I was surprised that the people who were doing these came from Michigan, Vermont and New Hampshire. They lease the taps and have all started since around 2000.

[PerryFamily]

Revi- I think there was an article about this in a recent Maple News. It may have been a different operation but it was about large leases in Maine.

[Hungry Beaver Sugar Camp]

I bought 256 acres in December 2012. Haven't stopped playing on it yet. Only 10 miles from home. Last year 93 taps. This year 300. Built a bunk house last year and this year comes the sugar house. As a former forester ( years ago) it has been great to get back into the woods. You going to love every minute. Best of luck with your plans!

[heus]

Love hearing stories like these.

[tonka]

I am tapping on a neighbors land, I would really love to buy the little section i am tapping on. There is about 5 acres with maples on, right now I think I am running ruffly 125 or so taps, with some management and some patience in another 10 to 15 years could be 150 to 175 tap, maybe more. It is in a great location to build a sugar house, 20 to 30 yards away from the road/electricity, it is only 1/4 mile from the home place, and it is in between the other woods I tap and where I do all the cooking of the sap, I just need to build up the confidence to approach the land owners and ask if they would be willing to part with the little section of wood. It would be nice to know a good price to offer them for a sugar bush stand point if they would so happen to agree to sell it, on average, land is selling for average $1500 an acre and that is tillable ground.

[Ed R]

Hungry Beaver: That's a wonderful looking bunk house. Right now I'm thinking about about building a combination bunk house/sugarhouse board and batten style on my U.P. property. Tonka: Since you must already have some type of lease or agreement with the current owners I would let them know that you would like the first shot at purchasing the land if they would ever decide to sell or log the property. Let them know that you are interested. Have an idea what the timber value is currently on the property because that will figure in greatly into what you will offer them. Have a number ready in case they put you on the spot. I am planning on doing an improvement cut on my property. I am thinking that will pay for my building or close to it. I paid just over 1000 an acre for lake front property with marketable timber and only an outhouse on it. Electric is 2 miles away.

[sweetmusicj]

Thanks for the stories all. Currently deployed right now, but in 3-4 years I have a dream of coming home, hopefully getting a job with the Air Guard on weekends and starting doing Maple Syrup. I will of course supplement my income, but the dream would be to get my feet wet the first couple of years and then trying to go big (5-7k taps big). So just big enough where I can handle it by myself and with a few family members while still hopefully making a profit.

That's the dream that keeps me happy while deployed down here anyways (seriously, actually had a dream about it last night)! I'm fortunate as my family has some land that I hopefully can get 200-500 taps going to start off with before I go looking to buy land and make a move. Plus, my family has a history in forestry which will help me also in any land purchase (getting a good timber value estimate).

Hope you all have a good season this year!

Nathan

[chad]

Thanks for the stories all. Currently deployed right now, but in 3-4 years I have a dream of coming home, hopefully getting a job with the Air Guard on weekends and starting doing Maple Syrup. I will of course supplement my income, but the dream would be to get my feet wet the first couple of years and then trying to go big (5-7k taps big). So just big enough where I can handle it by myself and with a few family members while still hopefully making a profit.

That's the dream that keeps me happy while deployed down here anyways (seriously, actually had a dream about it last night)! I'm fortunate as my family has some land that I hopefully can get 200-500 taps going to start off with before I go looking to buy land and make a move. Plus, my family has a history in forestry which will help me also in any land purchase (getting a good timber value estimate).

Hope you all have a good season this year!

Nathan


Well thank you for your service you're a brave man and sounds like you got one heck of a plan for when you get home, and get home safely

[BreezyHill]

Nathan,

Thanks for the service you and your friends provide for this sweet country.

Our family history goes back to the Mayflower with several members in the Revolutionary War. My dad was in WW II, father in law in Korea, and brother retired from the Coast Guard.

So when you and your buds get back to the States you are welcome, any time at Breezy Hill Farm. We raise Angus Cattle and the grill will be filled with steaks for a meal. Sap season or not we will give you a tour of our sugar house and bush and we will even hook up the atv to the ladder system so you can see the ladders and releaser work.

You just let me know when you can come and our family will be ready!

Thanks again and I sincerely look forward to meeting you!

Ben

[sweetmusicj]

Nathan,

Thanks for the service you and your friends provide for this sweet country.

Our family history goes back to the Mayflower with several members in the Revolutionary War. My dad was in WW II, father in law in Korea, and brother retired from the Coast Guard.

So when you and your buds get back to the States you are welcome, any time at Breezy Hill Farm. We raise Angus Cattle and the grill will be filled with steaks for a meal. Sap season or not we will give you a tour of our sugar house and bush and we will even hook up the atv to the ladder system so you can see the ladders and releaser work.

You just let me know when you can come and our family will be ready!

Thanks again and I sincerely look forward to meeting you!

Ben


Thanks Ben! I may have to take you up on that offer some day. I appreciate it! Great...now I'm hungry for steak and I can tell you one thing, ain't gonna be no steak for me for a long time (well, besides what the chow hall calls steak, but I wouldn't call it that...)!

I would like to see how the ladder system works...

[Run Forest Run!]

Nathan, we all benefit from a good reality-check, and you certainly gave us that. Thank-you for posting, and thank-you for your service. If there is any karma in life, you've got a huge stand of maples waiting for you that will run at 5% for twelve months of the year.

[sweetmusicj]

So here's one if you believe in signs...I have been talking to my wife about this idea (thinking about buying land in the UP Mich for Maple Syrup production) and she emailed me the other day saying she was at a concert talking to a friend and mentioned the idea and the friend said "no way! My grandpa is trying to find someone in the family to take over HIS maple syrup business in the UP! I told my wife to enquire more, it'd be great for him to keep it in the family but if he has no takers I'd be interested in taking a look. Taking this as a sign to keep on planning to someday get back into Maple Syrup production.