4x4 Compact tractor dreams

[Pete S]

I currently have an Allis Chalmers WD45/loader/rear blade that we've had and used around our place for about 5 years. She's been a very faithful servant, and a tireless worker, but................

I would really like to SOMEDAY (possibly in a year or so) purchase a 4x4 Compact Tractor with a loader.

We have about 1500 feet of driveway to clear snow from, we burn wood to heat the house, (and I would like to expand/grow our syrup operation) and we are located in the Kettle Moraine Forest area wherein as our woods is full of slopes, and hills, and fetchin' some of the trees in our woods is a challenge.

The WD 45 in the woods rivals the sensation of driving a school bus.....without power steering, etc......

I noticed that many of the members posting indicate that they own a Kubota.

When looking, there seems to be an abundance of "others" out there, like Jinma, Kioto, and the like.

I don't have a problem at all with USED equipment, and I don't mind fixin' things, but when looking there seems to be too much out there to really know what I should be looking at and for.

Currently, this is still in the "DREAM" (lack of cash) stage, but I typically like to narrow the group when looking for a purchase of this magnitude to focus on only a few.

I would greatly appreciate, any and all responses, any potential links regarding the various makes and models, and comments on horsepower for this style of machine, etc.

Thanks!
Pete

[Pete33Vt]

I'm not sure how it is where you ae at but here in VT, a compact tractor in the 45-60 hp range is a hot subject. You can't find many good used tractors up here for under 10,000. You can get a bigger tractor for less and are easier to find. But then who wants a 100 hp to collect sap. I know an AC 5050 4wd is a good tractor. But might be hard to find. I also know that on e-bay you can find a good assortment of tractors. Some are from dealers that have stores and you might be able to find one close to you.
I feel a 50 hp tractor would be good for what you need. Not sure if any of my rabbling helped, But GOOD LUCK with your search. I am sure if you use the web you can find different dealers that would send you info on there tractors so you can compare.
Pete

[Fred Henderson]

I have an L3830 Kubota 4x4 which is rated 38HP. It has 14.9 x24 tires on the rear. From the work that ot has done for me in the past 4 years I know that it has worked circles around the 45 hp JD 2x4 that I previously had. The "L 30 " sereis goes from 31 HP all the way up to 50 HP. New Holland and JD also have good compacts.

[GregMVT]

You might want to check out http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/index.php They have a lot of information about a different tractors. A lot of my property is hilly and this affected my decision to go with the Kioti CK30. A taller tractor is going to have a higher center of gravity even with filled industrial tires. It'll also mean wider trails, more soil compaction from a heavier machine, and clearance issues when skidding logs out. I think my driveway is only about 400' long but a 6' rear blade clears it fairly quick. We burn wood in the house as well as a wood fired evaporator so I had been clearing out as much poplar and some cherry that hasn't been doing well. The only problem has been trying to get full size trees around some of the corners on the trails. The CK has plenty of power. Finally, it sounds like you'd be using the tractor year round so you'll want a dealer close by. A good dealer is as important as getting a tractor for a good price. You'll need to be able to get oil/hydraulic filters plus I've found that working in the woods pins, etc get hooked on brush easily and get lost.

Greg

[Parker]

I would suggest that you look UNDER the tractor befor you get one,,a fellow here in town has a New Holland that he works in the woods with,,it has a plastic fuel tank located under the tractor,,not a good set up for the woods,,also as said befor you need some clearance in the woods,,and a local dealer is critical,,,I would ask your neighbors that have tractors what they think of theres and the service they get,,,I get a paper called Country Folks that has a bunch of tractors for sale in it,,there is also Agreview in Vermont,,weekly market bulletin in N.H.,, good luck

[Sugarmaker]

Pete,
My arms still ach from loading manure with a WD45 with no power steering and that was 30 years ago! My dad called them snorty. Nice sounding tractor. And real easy keepers. The 45 is a real work horse but not a great woods tractor. Brings back lot of memories. Mostly good! Spent just hundreds of hours on our two 45's. One did have power steering and we finally changed the loader over to that tractor. WHEW :!: Anyway for plowing driveway snow they do a nice job with a blade on the highlift and a good set of chains.
Good luck with your new tractor dream. May want to consider keeping that classic Alis too! :) :)

Chris

[Fred Henderson]

Nice thing about the older tractors is that you did not have to be a rocket engineer to fix them. Basic tools were all that you needed. I had a JD narrow front,and a hand clutch to use in the woods. Many aspect of the JD I liked but backing a trailer in the woods with a hand clutch whew. I always said that you didn't have to be a musician be it sure would have helped.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Pete,

I have a Kubota L3400 which is 35 hp and it is a really nice tractor. It is the value line model and doesn't have the bells and whistles as Fred's tractor has. I got it with a Kubota matched loader last Dec and it does about everything I ask. I wish it had a little more rear lift capacity, but other than that, no complaints. It is great during sugaring season as I can drive over soft ground without tearing it up. I will only put about 20 to 25 hours a year on it, so I went new as I know how I take care of stuff and would like it to last me for years. One thing is go with a tractor that has been around and has a good dealer network. Kubota has sold well over 1 million tractors in the US in the last 28 years and JD and NH are very good tractors too.

I got an absolute steal deal on my tractor and I haven't found a price lower anywhere in the US. I saw one on ebay that was over a year old sell for as much as I paid for my new. Any of these three brands and MF will hold their resale value very well. I would guess with the price of steal increasing and everything else used in tractor production that my tractor will be worth as much or more than I paid for it when it is 5 years old pending it doesn't have any damage. :)

[Fred Henderson]

Brandon, Bells and whistles I didn't need but I took them. Hind sight tells me that the $4000 for that intellegent panel on the Grand L just isn't worth it. If I had of put the 4 grand into just a plain tractor I could have got a 50 HP.

[maplehound]

What does everone think of a skid steer type tractor? My brother borrows one when he cuts fire wood. It works great to get around in tight areas. He is able to pick up the end of larger logs and pul them out, we are able to haul firewood out in the bucket. they have splitters available for them,( one I seen is used inverted to split firewood from the seat or pick up and load logs without geeting off the seat) It seems like a very versitile piece of equipment.
ron

[Parker]

Skid steers sink a lot faster than a tractor , dont have much clearance, and dont have a 3 point hitch,,also you cant see in back of you very well,,in my experiance

[Pete S]

I considered a skid steer for about 5 seconds.

If you install a set of "tracks" on them..............ya just about can't stop them. Hydraulic systems on these things have incredible power.

What turned me away was to steer in my yard and drive, I'd rip things up, AND..............I wanted something that was possibly a bit "wife friendly".

Not saying that the fairer sex can't run one............but as soon as the throttle came up anywhere close to half way 8O ..............she'd be done.

Hey...........thanks for all the replies!
Pete

[Fred Henderson]

Getting something that is user freindly for the wife makes a lot of sense. Means more time for you for doing the thing that you like. :wink:

[maplehound]

Still like the idea of skid steer for the woods. But I think I will buy a tractor first so I can pull my sap wagon with it.

[MASSEY JACK]

As far as the $4000 for the intelipanel on the L3830, there is far more differences between the L30 series than the L3400. The L30's have a much stronger steering setup. The three point hitch has external lift cylinders for it that are much simpler and stronger than the internal rockshaft cylinder of the L3400. You also have synchromesh if it is a DT trans. Don"t get me wrong, I like the L3400's too. There have been almost no warranty issues with them at our dealership. We also sell Case equipment. I would stick with one of the well known brands if you buy new. I have seen lots of tractor brands that came on the market and are long gone now. It is almost impossible to get parts for those tractors and if you have a big failure you may have to sell it for parts and start over. Kubota is the market leader and they got there by having a quality product with a good dealer network. We sell a lot of Kubota's(200 a year) and if we had to survive on parts and service business for Kubota products alone we would probably starve. As far as buying an older tractor I would suggest that you get something with a roll bar on it or put one on it. Roll overs are accidents(even old farmers can have them) and we lose one or two customers every year to a roll over. I had two Kubota owners roll theirs over this summer and the roll bars saved their bacon! One guy was smart and did not try to start it after he got it upright -it only cost him a couple hundred to have us get the oil out of the cylinders and get it running. The other one started his L3830 and the oil had gotten on top of the pistons. Junked the motor.He had an insurance claim for $13000 including external damage to the tractor and the mower.

[forester1]

MasseyJack, Thanks for that info. I am looking at the catalog for those two models and trying to figure out the differences. Maybe in the spring I will get one or the other.

[maple flats]

I have 2 4x4's and both are good. My 1st one is a Ford 1500 (20HP) with roll bar, 12 spd fwd, 4 rev. and I bought it new in 82. My 2nd is a Ford 1700 (25HP) 4x4 w/loader, no roll bar yet but looking for one to fit, just bought used for $6000 from private owner who needed bigger but trade in was just under 6000 so I got it before dealer added their mark up and took time to go thru it. I like both, but I have no hills, just slight up and downs, very few steeper than 1'/10' rise or drop. These fit both my blueberry operation and my maple needs. I have nothing against dealers making money but I checked it out and feel comfortable with it. The clutch is good, lots of adjustment left, brakes good, hours low, engine clean, no oil leaks, all fluids look and smell right, electrical all works good and the body is like new. These tractors are from '79-'82. The Ford line is now called Boomer by New Holland and most have hydro trans.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

There is quite a bit of difference between a L3400 and a Grand L3130 or a L3430. If money wasn't an issue, I would have went with a Grand L series as they have some better features. They are quite a bit heavier, have a lot more hydraulic lift capacity, have telescopic arms, and a syncronized trans just to name the main ones. It was about $ 2500 more for a L3130 vs my L3400.

Massey, I bought mine in Dec 05 and got it with the matched Kubota loader, fluid in all tires and Ag tires for $ 14,700. And on top of that got the 6 months same as cash and got another $ 500 off and drove it for 5.5 months without paying a penny on it. I have yet to see anyone on Tractorbynet get one for that price. My dealer is also a Case dealer and they were great to deal with and don't have anyone on commission. I have only put 20 hours on it and that will be about what it gets every year. :) I could have bought a JD 790 and a NH TC30 for about the $ 14,200 price which is what I ended up paying for it and they weren't near the tractor for the $$$.

[Fred Henderson]

20 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It will wear out just sitting there doing nothing. My L3830 does a lot of work for me, its an 03 and already has 550+ hours on it. I don't have a farm, but I do finish mow 4-1/2 acers several times in the summer. Then I chip the branches from the trees that I cut for fire wood and burn them in my outdoor furance. I wish at times that I had a little more HP for the chipper but I get by. The L series is a nice light machine and with reason will go a lot of places a heaver tractor won't.

[MASSEY JACK]

Our salemen are on salary too. If anyone is interested, the Ford and New Holland compact tractors are made by Shibaura in Japan. They are the same tractors as the Case Farmall compacts that we sell. The John Deere compacts are made by Yanmar in Japan. The Massey and Challenger compacts are made by Iseki in Japan. Maple Flats....put a roll bar on that Ford. I can tell you stories of flat ground farmers that are no longer with us because of a roll over. One farmer got too close to a river while mowing and the bank gave way. One other man was bush hogging and put one rear wheel over a stump he forgot was there and he end up pinned under the mower upside down and it burned up.

[Fred Henderson]

I couldn't agree more with putting a roll bar on Mapleflats tractor. DO IT.
Flats!!!!!!!!!
If all those other compacts are made overseas are you saying that Kubtoa is the only one that is US made or is it just assembled in the US and the components made elsewhere.

[MASSEY JACK]

I believe all the major components come from Japan. They do build all the attachments in Suwanee GA. The bx series and the RTV's are assembled in GA. There are no compact tractors actually built in the USA.

[Pete S]

Again, I really appreciate all the resopnses, BUT I failed to mention another question early on.

We would like to consider a snow blower attachment, and the balance of the work would be gravel/dirt movin' and log fetchin' for firewood.

What Horse Power rating would be appropriate?

Also, keeing in mind that I would like something that's purty nimble in the woods.

Thanks!
Pete

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Pete,

I did tons of research and talked to a lot of people and the tractor I bought was what I felt was the most bang for the buck. It will do any and all of the things you need it too. If your land is anything other than close to flat, better go with the AG tires vs. the R4's so you don't go skating down the side of a hill. I have all my tires filled with fluid and that adds around another 500 lbs. Mine is 34.7 HP and should handle a snow blower fine. Might want to look at one of those blades that strap onto the front bucket. Lowes and other big stores down here use them and they work great and would be cheaper than a snow blower and there wouldn't be anyting to tear up or wear out. :)

[Brad W Wi]

Pete, If your in the Kettle Moraine of Wisconsin your near me. If you get your dream tractor and want to unload your loader for the WD. I'd be interested in it. I can't figure out why anyone would want anything but an Allis Chalmers WD. Just reliving my youth I guess.

[Pete S]

I am near you, as I'm west of Plymouth about 5 miles. (7 from Fleet Farm)

I can relate about harkening back to one's youth, as I still have affection for an Oliver 1850.

The reason that you don't search beyond the WD is probably a fond youthful attachment, but as well I can see you can make up for it's [WD45] shortcomings with your Polaris 6x6 8O

Our WD as mentioned is tireless, and with chains on the tires I've done some purty amazing stuff in the woods, but when the time is right........she'll be sold to a good new owner.

[royalmaple]

Pete-

If you don't have your heart set on a snowblower attachment, you can rig up a plow pretty easily. I have a 6 foot meyers plow, and I took the mounting brackets off and welded them to a flat bar, then drilled two holes in my bucket and sandwiched that with another piece of flat steel on the bottom and bolted to the bucket, then when I want to hook up my plow, I just drive up to the plow, and put in two pins, and hook the chain to the hook on the center top of my tractor and a-plowing-we-go.

You can run two hydraulic lines to the bucket and hook up the left right cylinders and just connect to another valve near your seat and your really cooking.

Works slick as hell. But again if you don't want to plow...

[Pete S]

Actually the "plow thing" really doesn't bother me. It's just the blower would be a great asset as we tend to drift a bit here.

BTW........I've got an old 1957'ish Ford/Int? 4x4 pick-up with a plow spotted, under some pines, in a back yard.

I'd consider it for a plow truck but actually the plow blade is my interest to esentially do what you described.

Don't tell the wife...................cuz it's gonna be a surprise! :wink:

[maple flats]

I am looking for a roll bar for the Ford 1700. Does anyone know where I can get one, haven't found one yet, new or otherwise, model specific or general universal for the size/weight of the tractor. I agree, a roll bar is very important which is why I ordered the 1500 with one when I bought it new.

[MASSEY JACK]

Maple Flats, call your local New Holland dealer about the ROPS. Kubota has an ongoing program to outfit older tractors with ROPS. They must be tired of being sued. The program kicks in some money from Kubota and makes a brand new one very affordable. Also you could try WENGER'S in Myerstown PA. They are a large salvage yard. 800-451-5240. PETE S, I like the Oliver 1850's too because they were the only one with the 6cyl Perkins engine. Westvirginiamapler --you are right about the tires. The ag tires (R1) have much better traction than the R4 industrial treads. Two advantages of the R4 tires is that they are much bigger so we can get a lot more weight in them for ballast and they do less damage to lawns. For the same reason that they are better on lawns (more surface area on the tread) they are not very good in snow either. Front snowblowers are really nice but they are very expensive. Rear snowblowers are much cheaper but it is a pain in the neck to look backwards all the time. We sell a lot of snowplows that quick couple on the front of the loader.They work fine if you have pavement or frozen ground. The disadvantage is that you have the weight of the loader on the plow if you want it to follow the ground. If the ground is even a little soft it digs in. Ideally a plow should be hooked up like it is to a pickup. It needs a chain for the lifting so it does not have too much down pressure. If you have pavement then the down pressure is a good thing as you can really scrape it clean. I bought an 8 foot fisher plow at an auction for $75 and converted it to a quick coupler for my loader and I plug the angle hoses into my rear hydraulics to angle the blade. I also put a crossover relief valve on the plow so if I hit something on one side it will let the oil relieve to the other cylinder and let the blade "give" instead of breaking.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jack,

What kind and sizes of tractors do you have??

[MASSEY JACK]

I currently have 2 Massey Fergusons and 1 Landini. The MF135 I have is a 1967 with 590 original hours! It is a sweet little tractor. The other MF is a 50E 4wd tractor-loader-backhoe (full size). It is a 1988 and I bought is with a dead motor and rebuilt it. There is plenty of work for it around my place. The Landini (most of you are wondering what a Landini is...) is a model 6860 that I purchased new in 1997. It is 70hp,4wd, with a loader. It is a lot like your L3400 in that is does not have many frills but is fairly bulletproof and should last a very long time. Massey bought 60 percent of Landini(italian) in 1959. All the early 4wd utility tractors that MF had were actually Landini's painted red.Until around 1986 when MF started buildiing there own in England. It has a Perkins Engine. Landini is known worldwide for it's specialty tractors for orchards,vinyards, and hi-clearance units for vegetables and rice paddys. If I was to buy a new tractor today and I would probably by an M series kubota. I love how sharp they can turn with there front axle design. In the past I have had a Ford 4000, Allis chalmers 'G', Massey Ferguson "35" deluxe, Massey Ferguson "20" turf, and a MF 235 Orchard, and a MF180 Row Crop, and a Case 450 dozer. If I had a barn to keep them all in I would probably still have them all :lol: I am thinking of selling the backhoe and looking for a very big excavator so I can dig a couple ponds. Hope I have not bored you to death.....

[Parker]

Jack- I am interested in putting a 10' fisher plow I have on the front of my john deere,,how did you plumb in that cross over relief valve??,I dont want to bend my loader arms,,,,
I started by looking at kubotos when I was looking for a tractor,,just could not afford one,,the kubotos really hold there value,,,

[MASSEY JACK]

Parker, Green paint holds it's value well too. I bought the crossover relief valve from "Surplus Center". They send us a catalog. www.surpluscenter.com. They have one for $50. part #9-5262. I mounted mine on the plow 'A' frame so it stays with the plow. I ran hoses to the front crossmember of the loader and put quick couplers there. I have to get off the seat anyway to uncouple the plow and the hyd couplers are right there too. I think a 10 foot blade is a lot for your tractor. It will likely push your front end sideways when you angle the blade and push much snow. As far as plumbing the valve it is very simple. 2 ports in and 2 ports out to the cylinders. Comes with a diagram too.

[fk]

I often wonder if I should have gotten a newer compact 4x4. I bought a 84 Hesston 7090 instead. I have put $10K into it but have a like new motor, new tires, new rims, on it. It runs like a good clean used modern 4x4 farm tractor. Its a little rough as the Fiats had a mild corrosion problem during this time. It cant crawl through the woods very well but it pulls 600 gallons of sap through mud and snow up out of my lower sugarplace nicely(my sap is all below my sugarhouse).
I cant get my 3 point working though. That is my next challenge. I only paid $2500 for this tractor when it was laying abandoned in a big dairy farmers field. It has factory cab and loader. I miss my JD 2240 2wd because it was so nimble in the woods. I had $7900 in that tractor with the JD145 loader and it ran real well. I wish I could just collect tractors but cant afford that. Got to get rich selling syrup for $500/gallon first 8O But I sure love the wood skidding and sap hauling power of a 70hp tractor and the aggressive ag tires in the mud and snow.
Anyone know of any dead hesston or fiatagri tractors or parts in their necks of the woods. I would love to find one for parts or at least an owners manual...........Frank K

[ibby458]

Frank - did you try Jensales for a manual reprint? They cover a lot of tractors. www.jensales.com

[maple flats]

update: Massey Jack and his parts man found a ROPS for my Ford 1700. It has been ordered and as soon as it arrives I am having a local dealership install it. This IS a factory ROPS for this tractor. I lucked out and as I was trying to find a ROPS I got a blurp from Co-op ext about a program in NYS which pays 70% up to max $600 to retro fit older tractors with ROPS. They are paying the $600 and I will end up with about $450 + frt for my share with the install. If I had located one even a couple of weeks earlier I may have had to pay the full shot. Guess I don't always get the short end of the stick.

[dhbiker1]

The Ford/New Holland in my opinion is an awesome used 4x4 tractor. I'm trying to find a nice used one. It was made from about mid-late 80's up until 1999. It is 42hp, but compared to the new compacts, it has a larger chassis, bigger axles, which I like. It could also easily run the bailer on our 10-15 acres of fields. Make sure its got the loader and ag tires.