Disposable Plastic Taps for Bags?

[MapleMark753]

Hello-- We have been using the metal 7/16 Soule spouts for our bags, and they seem to work ok, but am considering going to the Lapierre straight seasonal plastic spout (5/16) as a total replacement. Photos (I haven't had one in my hand to look at) look like they have a lip on them that would adequately hold the bag holder.
If anyone has any experience pro or con with this I'd sure like to hear back. My thoughts are that they look like they'd work good, but do they have any seal problems, and do they hold the weight of the full bag? They're listed as being under 20 cents each, make a smaller tap hole than I'm currently doing, so sounds good on the money side, and the tree health side too.

thanks,
Mark

[mapleack]

Yes the lapierre straight seasonals work fine for bag holders.

[MapleMark753]

Thanks for the response, that helps to know they work ok with bags. Any info on how the straight seasonal spouts hold up in windy conditions? We get pretty strong winds here regularly during the season, and lose 2 to 5 a day with the Soule 7/16 spouts.

[markcasper]

I had 320 of them this past season. Reason: I was short on spouts b/c I didn't think I would go back to bags, and another farmer who I buy sap from was using my metal ones. I didn't get all the tubing up before season that I wanted so went this route since I had the bag holders already.

The wind was an issue. Out of the 320, there was at least twice where 50-60 blew off and not long after emptying them. Once there is 3-4 inches of sap they were fine. We ended up putting long sticks in back of many of them to pinch the holder against the tree. It was kind of a PITA. On the other hand, these were hilltop ridge trees and I knew going into this that the wind would definately be an issue. I chose these trees because they were the sweetest ones in the whole woods. I was real happy with the yield. A little over 200 gallons syrup from just these /5,000 plus gallons sap. So yes I did lose some sap, but we were pretty diligent to rehang them. ALL of the taps ran right to the end and they were tapped for 3 1/2 weeks, there was no slowing down due to the new plastic. I did have a few that pulled out over time, but not many, and a few would come off when you emptied them, but it wasn't anything big. I did have to cut some short pieces of tubing with a notch and slide on the end of maybe 30 of them because the sap would run down the backside and then miss the bag. Alot of that depended on if the tree was leaning or not. Having an upward slant worked the best.
Would I do it again? Yes probably, they were only .14 each. If they were located down in the valley and bottom of the woods, hardly any would have flung off. When I used to tap many bags with metal 7/16" I always lost some where the wind hit, but this was worse. Good luck.

[lyford]

I was thinking of using these taps with buckets. Anyone have any experience with that. I used 7/16 metal taps last year, but have want to switch to 5/16 for the trees sake. Would I be better off going with the leader cast aluminum 5/16 or these plastic seasonals. Thanks for your thoughts.

[mapleack]

The plastic seasonals, you don't have to worry about attempting to sterilize them to reuse and you can buy new ones for 16 years before you equal the cost of a cast aluminum one.

[lyford]

Thanks for the quick reply Andy, do I have to go thru the la pierre website to order them or does anyone else carry them? Thanks again.

[eagle lake sugar]

H20 innovations seasonal spouts are .13 each. I've had good luck with them. My supplier is Bacon farm in Sidney, Maine.

[Dave Y]

lyford,
I am a Lapierre dealer and I carry the straight spout. I have used the staright spout for buckets and they work well. I am in western pa.

[lyford]

Dave, Do you have a website? Where in PA are you, I'm about a 1/2 hour south of Buffalo, in Lakeview, NY? Thanks

[MapleMark753]

When the bags were being blown off some of our trees, some of the time, we thought we were the only ones, and were doing something wrong. Thanks for the insight and replies. We are going to try the straight seasonal spouts, doesn't seem like any reason to NOT try em. I'm not locked into Lapierre, but if I remember their website correctly, you can look up dealers for them by state, and locate one nearest you that way if you want to.
thanks
Mark

[heus]

I used them last year with bags and did have one issue. If the backside of the bag is bulging into the center under the tap, sap would often drip onto the backside of the bag and run down the tree. It wasnt a huge problem but occured on probably 10 out of 50 bags. It could simply be that the hole was not drilled at enough of an angle.

[lyford]

heus, would running a few inches of tubing from the tap into the bag fix that issue?

[MapleMark753]

With the idea of keeping the bags on the tree, and the sap in the bags, where they're/it's supposed to be, what is the length of the spout, after the lip that holds the bag holder on the straight plastic spout? I know this is a pretty specific question, but it would help to know that. And then, as compared to the Soule or Leader metal 5/16 or 7/16 spouts designed for buckets/bags.

[MapleMark753]

I don't know about the tubing on the end of the spout question. Maybe someone else does. But, I do know that the plastic does puncture pretty easily when banging around in the wind, and when it freezes as well. I'd think any short length of tubing should be filed/sanded smooth on the end that would go into the bag?
(tried to do these two in one post, but somehow it split....oops...;)
Mark

[heus]

heus, would running a few inches of tubing from the tap into the bag fix that issue?

Yes I suppose that would work.

[markcasper]

With the idea of keeping the bags on the tree, and the sap in the bags, where they're/it's supposed to be, what is the length of the spout, after the lip that holds the bag holder on the straight plastic spout? I know this is a pretty specific question, but it would help to know that. And then, as compared to the Soule or Leader metal 5/16 or 7/16 spouts designed for buckets/bags.

I believe I wrote something in a former post of this: The straight clear spouts come out not quite 1/2 way, but since no tree is the same or perfect, it will vary from tree to tree. The part of the spout where the drop drips into the bag is straight, (remember these are designed to attach a piece of tubing and the tubing gets tighter the farther you push it on up to the rib point.) If the spout is put in perfectly horizontal, there will still be that flare which if the wind blows, that drop of sap is going backwards and onto the rib. I did put some short pieces of tubing on the ends and you don't want them much more than a 3/4" or so, then you'll have sap running down the front and then its a pita when you take them off for emptying.

I cut small pieces, 3/4" to 1" and then cut the part dripping into the bag at a 45 degree angle, with the long part on the bottom of the spout. Worked great, but a few of the tube pieces came off when emptying if you were not careful.

Just measured one, and the length from the back of the rib to the end (dripping end) is just a fraction less than 3/4".

[MapleMark753]

Thanks-- Its about 1 3/8 inches from the back of the bag/bucket lip on our metal spouts to the end (dripping sap end). Also, I looked at reusable weights that could be lightly crimped onto the bottoms of the bags. Just about any big sporting goods store has them, no lead, just need pliers to put em on and take em off. Haven't tried them, but at least our bags (the several that blowoff anyways) just blow off just after emptying/collecting when the bag is completely empty and just a little extra weight may prevent that. I'm gonna buy a few to try out
The short pieces of tubing cut at an angle sounds good too. Nothing beats experience!
What would it take to get H2O, Lapierre, etc....to make a spout (straight, clear, polycarbonate, disposable, cheap) purpose designed for bags, or buckets too? I say that in sort of a wry humorous way, but really its something that I'd buy. I'd call too and ask for it, but I have no "juice" with anybody who manufactures maple stuff. (we're small, and haven't been doing this for generations)
Mark

[markcasper]

I tried a few check valve spouts, had to make the bag holder hole bigger, but the plastic just is not as strong as the polycarbonate and is too soft for the job. They worked, but it was a real pita to take them off for emptying, the checkvalves bent right over and it looked scary with a full bag of sap.

I will definately use the straight clears again if I have to, but am planning tubing in most of the area I had the bags in.

[Birddog]

I had a few in spots that were more exposed to the wind and kept getting blown down when empty. I wrapped bungee cords around the tree and hooked on the handle on each side. That solved it for me but it was kind of a PITA to have to attach and reattach after emptying. I don't have a huge number of taps so it's manageable for me.

[chicken123]

do they work with homemade pvc holders?