electrical meter???

[red maples]

So I met with my neighbor yesterday who is an electrician and he said best way to get electric to the sugarhouse to come right off the pole and put in a meter at the pole and then run the wire underground. He didn't know how much they cost anyone one have a ballpark number of how much the electric company might charge for the meter and tieing it in? I called my local company but am waiting for them to call me back.

[BreezyHill]

Well, that is going to depend on your local company. You will need to have the meter box all set to go and then they just wheel in and are out in around 10 minutes or less. The big issue is going to be the rate you get charged. I'm on national grid and that would be a commercial rate...have plenty of lubricant on hand. Look into the price differences for a demand meter. Demand here is much less for off peak rate than peak rate. Pays for meter difference over time. I have a 3 phase generator system for our mill. When it is on the house gets feed by the generator. So Most of my power usage is off peak in the house and it dropped the bill a bunch with the new meter.
I would stay on the power company, as it often takes ours along time to hookup power for new accounts. 3 months for the new soccer dome to get power. They had to pu in a dual generator system before the dome company would put up the building. have to have backup power to keep it aired up.

[rayi]

Can you use the meter off the house and run a underground wire to the shack? That was what I was hoping to do.

[tuckermtn]

Brad- are you on PSNH or NH electric co-op?
Co-op Is more flexible.

[red maples]

No I have Unitil for Seacoast NH. I don't have a direct route to dig underground from the house to the SH so I am guessing it will cost just as much in copper as it would be to get the meter put in. I can't run the wire back to the pole them out from there because its not my pole its still owned by the Unitil or whom ever even though its 400 ft from the road. My Neighbor said I will still have to purchase the meter from them then do everything then they just come and do the hook up part. He said he does it all the time for people and since its a residence its just considered and outbuilding and you just get 2 bills but anyway I wish the chic would call me back form unitil. second call into them and no return yet. getting a little pissed.

Breezy hill I do like the "lubricant" reference.. pretty funny.

[red maples]

So I just finally got in touch with the person at Unitil and they are sending out a rep on Thursday to discuss my options. this what they can see exactly how the poles are positioned and what I need to do.

[maple flats]

Much of that will depend on distance. Locally, the utility supplies the first 100' and a pole (National Grid). We must supply the meter socket and be wired before they will connect. If the utility goes more than 100' on their wire the cost is by the foot. Last year I paid for 140' at $27.85/ft. After the meter you pay whatever materials you need. Mine went another 235' underground, then my meter, another 25' into my panel box. Everything must pass the electrical inspection before the utility will connect. With all of this, grid power is still a bargain. You can not make your own or use any other form of energy for less, I know, I have 30 solar panels, 2 inverters, a small battery bank and 2 generators. I am however, on net metering, my meter runs forward and backwards depending on who is supplying power to the meter. If you want a meter for the sugarhouse, start now, they are real slow. In 2012 I requested the meter in late april. They had a planner here about 6 weeks later. Then I had to pay for the 140' before they would schedule it, and some legal details, including a right of way for them to the pole at 240 off the road. Then I had my part wired and inspected in mid September and requested the connection. I finally got connected on Nov 19 but they didn't have the net meter, on Nov. 26 they hooked up the net meter.
Your's would likely be faster, but don't count on it being quick. Mine took so long because of issues related to my solar. It seems they drag their feet when the have a net meter to connect, because they will likely get little or no usage income from them. In fact, on my meter I now have about 2,500 KWH in my favor.

[PerryW]

the big advantage to running a line from your existing house main panel to a sub-panel in the sugarhouse is that you will only have one monthly bill. For PSNH and NHEC, an additional meter will run around $15-20 per month even if you use no power at the sugarhouse.

If underground in not possible, you can also consider aerial cable or a combination of aerial cable (TRIPLEX or QUAD) and underground (URD). You can also install your own pole(s). PSNH hooked up a meter I installed on a pole and I ran 400' of 4/0 quad cable across a swamp using poles made by nailing three pressure treated 2x6's together. Then I transitioned to 4/0 URD for 100 feet to the house.

[GeneralStark]

I would suggest doing it right the first time. The problem with coming off your house meter is unless it is a substantial service (200 amps +) which most households are not, you will likely not have enough amperage to do what you want to do and you will be kicking yourself when you are dimming the lights and tripping brekers. Vacuum pumps, ROs, sap pumps, lights, etc.. it all adds up fast and motors need the extra capacity. VFDs can help if you are running 3 phase motors, but only so much.

If you do have 200 amp service it may be feasible to run an overhead line to your SH, but you may still not have enough capacity if you have large electric loads in your house. In my region of VT, you can basically do whatever you want after the meter and here there is no inspection. I suspect that is different in your neck of the woods so that will likely limit your options.

I am waiting on our local utility to come hook up our power. It amazes me how long it takes these clowns to do anything as you would think they would want new customers. Anyway...I decided from the get go to do a 200 amp service to the SH and 100 amps to our home. We presently have over 300 amps of conductor buried in 3" conduit. I also buried an extra run of 2.5" just in case we need more conductor down the road. In the SH I have been using the last three years there is only 100 amp service and we are constantly having issues with the VFDs kicking off on low voltage or the lights dimming or having to shut one thing off to start another. It limits production and is a real PITA during the season. This is one reason I am setting up a new operation.

Frugality is one thing, but spending more now to do it right once is the way to go.

[PerryFamily]

I have 100 amp overhead to my house meter where there is a disconnect.
Then i think 100 amp (#4 aluminium not sure if terminology is correct?) Underground in conduit to a 100 amp sub panel in the sugar house.
I ran a 600a ro, 8-9 lights depending on the time of day, a filter press, fridge snd cell phone charger .....as well as my whole house....and lights didn't even flicker.

In a power outage i shut breaker off at the meter, fire up the generator at the sugarhouse and bingo....kids have tv and i can boil.

I agree with do it right the first time though. Everyone's electrical requirements will be different though.

[red maples]

I do have 200 amps to the house. During the heat of the summer we have 4 A/C's running plus what ever else 2 fridges, chest freezer and the usual other stuff. and the lights never flicker. so with that stuff not running in the winter running vac pump(1hp) filter press and 300gph RO, lights, blower for evap. If I can time it right I won't be doing all that at the same time anyway. maybe some day but not likely. shouldn't be and issue on 100amps. Espeically when I ran everything off 2 20 amp and 1 15 amp extention cords last year. I am not too worried about the 2 bills coming to the house and it will be easier as my wife will be sharing the cost with me as she is putting an art studio which will have lights and a pellet stove in the winter... not much there and probably a small A/C in the summer which doesn't effect me anyway. but don't wanna go over head in anyway shape or form. So the extra meter seems the most economical and smartest and best way to do things.

[BreezyHill]

4 weeks back spoke with a tapper who made the comment about a better location of the pump on a new ro than his model. More air higher up. I couldn't leave that alone. So I stated the air on the floor would be cooler; he replied but my motor gets really hot. I asked how's your voltage. The lights don't flicker, and its a new 400 amp ent. I suggested checking it any way. Two weeks back we meet again. Hey you were right voltage with just the pump on dipped about 10%, as I recall the numbers. What do you suggest... Check the fuse box, then the bugs for tension on screws and crimps. Bigger is always better. A larger wire will reduce your surge rate when a motor is started. This makes the meter run slower. Under sized wire is worse as there is a huge spike in draw on the start of a motor...reason for time delay fuses. Do the numbers and then add 50-100%. Need a lesson hook up a generator to a motor on a 16 ga ext cord, start the motor. Now do it with a 10 ga ext cord. The generator will work but not as much or for as long.
Running of the house with a connection at the houses weather head connection will work in most cases provided the entrance cable is big enough.
Rayi, this will keep you at a lower usage rate as it is still residential not commercial. Red Maples was not getting that option as I read the inquire.

Glad you liked the lub pun. I live on the state line of VT & NY, farm cut in two, have learned it is better to just laugh, since you are going to get screwed in the end.
Back in '84 they wanted 60k to run a third line for 3ph for our mill. I bought a generator off the Vets Home for under $400 for a 45Kw on bid. Then a 100 Kw of the Feds for $1750 on bid twenty years later. The 45 runs on 2.3-2.5 gallons an hour. You might want to look on ebay and craigslist for a gen set. It will be a lot cheaper in the beginning and it really isn't that bad to set a tank and have a gen set running.

Ben

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I have 100 amp overhead to my house meter where there is a disconnect.
Then i think 100 amp (#4 aluminium not sure if terminology is correct?) Underground in conduit to a 100 amp sub panel in the sugar house.
I ran a 600a ro, 8-9 lights depending on the time of day, a filter press, fridge snd cell phone charger .....as well as my whole house....and lights didn't even flicker.

In a power outage i shut breaker off at the meter, fire up the generator at the sugarhouse and bingo....kids have tv and i can boil.

I agree with do it right the first time though. Everyone's electrical requirements will be different though.

the largest breaker you can pull off a 100a panel is 80%. so you should only be running 80a at your Sh. wire size from main panel to SH will be dictated by distance.

[PerryFamily]

Flats- I am no electrician thats for sure. But I did hire a licenced one for the install. There may very well be only a 80 amp breaker to the sugarhouse, I would have to look. All I know is that everything is run from a 100 amp service with no issues as of yet.

[red maples]

So I just met with the Unitil rep. She said I can put in a meter about 10ft from the pole(which is about 250ft from the road already) and run 200 amp service out to the meter and splitter and run 100 amps to the sugarhouse and 100 amps to the not built yet wife's art studio. it will only cost me about $120 or so for the electric company to run the wire to the pedestal. Everything else of course I will paying for conduit wire etc etc etc. So guessing a little on the high side it will be roughly $1000 for everything. hopefully more like $6-700 but we'll see.

[maple flats]

I suggest you run the full 200A to the sugarhouse, then feed a sub panel of 100A or even 125A to the art studio when that is built if they will be anywhere near each other. You will then have full potential and your wife's studio will not lack. The sugarhouse will only ues high power during the season, and your wife can still have all she needs. You do not have to divide the 200A in half. Sub panels and main panels can add up to more than the total, you just can't draw more than the 200 at once. Even if you split at the meter pole, both subs can total more than 200, only the main breaker can't be higher than the 200.

[Thad Blaisdell]

Agree with flats. Run the full 200 to the sugarhouse and sub panel it out to the studio.

[red maples]

hmmmmm..... I guess I guess I could that then should I need more power for a bigger RO some day if that day ever comes then its ready to go and I don't have worry about adding in additional power or what ever later. I like that idea. but I think the meter will still be on the post, and just run it out from there.

Thanks guys.

[GeneralStark]

I third what they said. Full 200 to the sh.

[Amber Gold]

I 4th. I'm doing the same thing in reverse...200 amp panel in the house w/ a 100 amp feed off the main panel to the sugarhouse.

I just had PSNH put a service in for me at my tank. Cost me ~$300 in materials. PSNH ran the wire from the transformer up the road down to the pole near my tank. This will be $300 well spent having pump/releaser in one spot and heated.

[maple flats]

I have my power coming to a post. The meter is there. From there 200A feeds the sugarhouse. When I build my new home, the power will feed from the sugarhouse, likely 150 A. My situation is a little different from most. I also have 6320 watts of solar feeding the main panel in the sugarhouse. What I don't use feeds to the grid. But the principle remains the same, power the sugarhouse 1st, then the house.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I have my power coming to a post. The meter is there. From there 200A feeds the sugarhouse. When I build my new home, the power will feed from the sugarhouse, likely 150 A. My situation is a little different from most. I also have 6320 watts of solar feeding the main panel in the sugarhouse. What I don't use feeds to the grid. But the principle remains the same, power the sugarhouse 1st, then the house.
Personally I would have dropped a 300A socket with dual lugs coming out the load side of meter put 200A to Sh and 100A to house. Reason for that is the distance you are going to travel to the house might not allow you the correct wire for voltage drop due to the lug size of a breaker feeding the house. If you put dual lug on both phases and neutral you can pretty much run up to 750MCM

[GeneralStark]

Personally I would have dropped a 300A socket with dual lugs coming out the load side of meter put 200A to Sh and 100A to house. Reason for that is the distance you are going to travel to the house might not allow you the correct wire for voltage drop due to the lug size of a breaker feeding the house. If you put dual lug on both phases and neutral you can pretty much run up to 750MCM

This is what my electrician recommended and is what I ended up doing. Two parallel runs of 4/0 Aluminum from transformer 160ft. to Pedestal and 300A meter socket. Splits to 200A to sugarhouse and 100A to home. Currently there is a temporary breaker box and outlets hung on the back of the pedestal so we can run tools. Final connections will be made later once sugarhouse is up and the 100 ft. of conduit to the home is buried.

7993

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

This is what my electrician recommended and is what I ended up doing. Two parallel runs of 4/0 Aluminum from transformer 160ft. to Pedestal and 300A meter socket. Splits to 200A to sugarhouse and 100A to home. Currently there is a temporary breaker box and outlets hung on the back of the pedestal so we can run tools. Final connections will be made later once sugarhouse is up and the 100 ft. of conduit to the home is buried.

7993
Great Minds Think A Like

[Thad Blaisdell]

psychotic minds... lol

[red maples]

I may do exactly the same!!! They run a 4/0 to the meter anyway. and split it there!!! then I can get the full 200 to the sugarhouse and 100 to her studio!!!

I will be doing pretty much the same panel!!!

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

I may do exactly the same!!! They run a 4/0 to the meter anyway. and split it there!!! then I can get the full 200 to the sugarhouse and 100 to her studio!!!

I will be doing pretty much the same panel!!!
As long as the house isn't huge a 30ckt 100A panel should be fine

[red maples]

our house has 200amp. and was originally going to go with 200 and split 100 for her 100 for me. Have to check to see if I can go that big off of the exsisting wire to get a full 200amp for the sugarhouse and 100 for her studio(which is not built yet she's getting a yurt going in sometime early summer 2014) So anyway if I can get the 200 then I will it will cost a little more for the boes and wire but it will be worth it I think!!!

[red maples]

Just a little update... well still working with unitil to figure things out. I talked to the field project manager and she said for right now I can only have 2- 200 amp service's I guess 10+ years ago there was a primary line coming onto my property but they ended up removing it. So since its was supposed to be there in the first place they are hopefully going to put it back in (with no charge to me) so that I can run the additional 300 amp service to get the 200amp to the sugarhouse and 100 amp for the wife's thing. in addition to the 200 amp service already at the house.

She agreed with me 100 % that it needs to be 200amp service as for now what I wanna run will be fine with the 100 amp but if I wanna expand and get more taps even if its from another woods, it will mean more and bigger equipment and will need MORE POWER. So that's where things stand right now.

[rayi]

Can't you just pull the meter hook your underline wire in to the lugs on the meter where is goes to the circut breaker panel and then do a 200 amp panel at the sugar house

[red maples]

no not that easy... I wish I could. not enough juice coming to the house. and pretty much no way to get the wire from the house to the sugarhouse. I pretty much need 600 amps(rounding up) coming off the street. 200 for the house, 200 for the sugarhouse, and 100 for my wife's Art studio(getting built next summer lucky me!) anyhow to do it legally and to make sure I have enough juice I need to do it this way.

[rayi]

How do you know how many amps are comming down from the pole?

[Mark]

Sometimes the hard part is convincing the power company to put in a transformer that is large enough to handle a load. A transformer will loose about 3% of it's rated capacity idling so they go small to minimize their loss. Around here on a 200 amp service they figure for about 65 amps. It can go higher for for a while and get by but not all day. The first season at my sugarhouse we melted the snow off and around the ground transformer in no time. I was lucky because my uncle was here and he was the number two at the power company. He took one look at the transformer and made a call. They put a recorder under the meter to see what we were drawing. The next day we shut down for an hour while they installed a big transformer. The recording showed large voltage drops and I was lucky I did not ruin any motors. You would think the power company would want you to use a lot of juice but if you are in a rural area they will try to limit what you can draw.

I wish we had three phase power down my road, it would be a different story.

[red maples]

not sure what we have. There use to be a church in my front yard about 25 years ago. they took the main line out because the church was torn down(the reason... that's another story all together) and they removed the main line because there was a hurricane and it became a nightmare for the power company. So I just have to wait and see what they say she is pulling for it and she said its a fairly short stretch and all they have to do is change out the transformer and run a bigger wire which she said will take 1/2 day or less and is little cost to them as they will be able to use the smaller transformer elsewhere. and cost me nothing. So we'll see what happens. hopefully they make up their mind quickly!!! I am still gonna run everything for the 200 am under ground before the ground freezes and just wait for them to figure what they are gonna do. at least the wire will be there!!!