Snowmobile club trails (VAST) through sugarbush

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I would like other opinions who may have experienced this before. I am torn. Our family lands have always had a vast trail through it. With growing my sugaring operation I will have lines that will have to cross the rd at some point. Maybe not this year, but certainly next. The question is this, is there a scenario where it is alright for a Vast (Vermont association of snowmobile trails?) trail to go through a sugarbush. In terms of liability, safety, concern of people messing with lines. etc.

A concern is a groomer catching a line brought down by a fallen tree. I would set them at 10-12 ft if possible, but a tree could bring it down at anytime. The major concern is a snowmobile and/or rider catching one.

Has anyone had to move a vast snowmobile trail for a sugaring operation, or is it fine to keep things as they have been while doing our best to mitigate the added risk of #12 wire crossing the rd.?


Thanks,
Ben

[madmapler]

I have a snowmobile trail that cuts through my land as well. I had the option of running a mainline along the upper side of the trail and then running a second line below it to pick up the other taps. The problem with that is 2 releasers instead of one but the only way to get from VT. to Mass. is via that trail and the club has been pretty decent about maintaining the trail,gates etc. I like to see the snowmobilers using my land and the majority appreciate it. Can you straddle the width of the trail without using wire? Maybe drop the lower side a few inches to account for the droop? There was a thread several months ago about this subject. A guy was thinking about running through a culvert. There does'nt seem to be an easy solution.

[TheMapleMoose]

We have an ITS trail on our property and two years ago some maples on the other side of the trail became mature enough to tap. Fortunately we have enough land and it worked out to move the trail away from our trees to the other side of our property, not possible in every case I know but it is "your land" so don't feel like you can't reroute them if you need to. The years our grove was trail side we never had any vandalism. Most of them are clipping along fast enough that they aren't interested in stopping anyway. The atv club used the same trail and we've never had any problems with them either.
We were at a commercial sugarbush his summer that had line running through a culvert under the road and they ran a few spare pipes in case of a freeze up, which isn't a bad idea but so far they hadn't had a problem with freezing

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

I think you guys are onto a great idea. A culvert will work perfect. If I pick the right spot with slope that would work perfect. The idea of line, or wire crossing the rd really didn't seem like an option.

[TRAILGUY]

i put in 4 18 " culverts because the groomer is at my house and I love to see family ride by and sometimes stop a buy syrup. got power through one but not planning vacuum till next year

[GeneralStark]

Wasting our nation's and other's resources by tooling around on snowmobiles for recreation is a disgrace. If you have to worry about these wasteful individuals affecting your ability to sugar on your own land I would suggest rerouting the trail. DO you receive some income from this unfortunate situation?

[Mark-NH]

GeneralStark. You need to password protect your computer. Someone pirated it while you were away and made you look like a curmudgeon.

[Maplewalnut]

Wasteful Individual??? Really??

[500592]

If you have vac a sap ladder may work.

[PerryFamily]

Wasteful individual's?
Wasting our nations resources?

Just think of the revenue snowmobiling brings to the state of Vermont? From registrations,sales tax,gas,food and lodging its a lot of money. Yes there are a few knuckleheads that ride off the designated trails (I was one in my youth )and have loud pipes that go fast but it can really be a fun family adventure.

Thanks to landowners out there for allowing the use of your land for others to enjoy.

I know for me, if not for gracious landowners, I wouldnt be able to make any syrup.

As far as trails in your bush, I think with some creativity you can make it work for sure. Wheather a culvert or ladder. Also talk to your local club, explain the situation and I am sure there are even a few members willing to give you a hand with it. Also I think signage would be important. Keeping riders slowed down and warning of possible tubing on the trail from limbs down.

Good luck

[wiam]

I can't disagree with General. My Grandfather put a stop to trails through the sugar woods years ago. They rode off trail and packed down gathering roads. This made them impossible to plow. This was after numerous warnings. I have chased many out of my fields. NO RESPECT FOR LANDOWNERS.

[J. hutchins]

if you bury your lines less than 4 ft put blue board on top of the pipe because the ground freezes from the surface.

[PerryFamily]

Wiam- Thats too bad for sure. As they say " it only takes a few to ruin it for others ". I think you will find VAST as an organization has the utmost respect for landowners, but it really does only take a few.

I am sure with some creativity it can be done.

[maple flats]

In NY the clubs are required by the state to remain on designated trails in the trail system. If they stray, you report it to the state and the club pays repairs and a fine. Since the state started this we have had zero issues. A trail goes thru my bush. Maybe Vt has a similar approach.

[spud]

I would never allow a VAST trail to go through my sugar woods. I would be afraid some knucklehead would ride off the trail and loose their head on my mainline. If that was to happen then some how some way it would be my fault and I would loose everything. Better to be safe then sorry.

Spud

[PerryFamily]

As far as damages, unless its a crop or maybe christmass trees I am not sure what else would be damaged.

In Vermont, clubs are required to get written permission from landowners. This permission form has language in it alleviating the landowner from all liability, and the rider is required to have insurance as well. Are there outlaw riders without insurance, sure, no different than vehicles I guess.

As a former rider, and current sugarmaker I am sure the local club will be more than willing to work with you to come to a good compromise.

Now in my more mature mid thirties....I hope the trails are open for my kids to enjoy.

Good luck

[TRAILGUY]

It is your land and you can do anything you want with it. I have been a trailmaster for a snowmobile club for twenty years in NH. You own the land and if you feel you do not want sleds on your land that is your right.
However I have a list of 150 landowner who enjoy seeing others enjoy life is there own way. In NH the law is clear ( if you do not get paid for others to use your land).
1. The land owner has not duty of care (does not have to make sure the land is safe).
2. The landowner has the right to use the trail in any way he normally would with out liability.
3. All club snowmobile trails are insured for $2,000,000 dollars.
4. The state is first indemnified ( the state must be sued first before the land owner).
5. By law the danger is in the sport and the rider must be in control at all times and is responsible for his own safety.
There has not been a successful law suit against a landowner in NH sense 1995 when these laws were pass.
Some people have called me and ask me to make a legal trail on their property so they would be covered buy insurance and get a well maintained walking trail for the summer months.

It is your land so just say no if you want, but don't live scared all the time and limit your live.

[madmapler]

I just looked at the VAST website and all riders are required to carry a $10,000 property liability policy. Granted some wont have it but it also says clearly that landowners are not held liable for injuries that happen on their property. If I had damages caused from a wreckless snowmobiler I am certain the local club would step up. Vermont needs all the income it can get. We are a relatively poor state. However I also know what its like to have your land disrespected and it really ticks me off. Private property is not "no mans land" as some people think. If you own land its going to happen. I consider myself fortunate to actually have property and want others to be able to enjoy it as well., I feel pretty good about letting snomobiles on my land. If you look at the VAST site or any other, you'll see they're doing the best they can and they do appreciate the land owners.

[maple flats]

In my bush, where a trail crosses I mark the mainline very clearly with orange ribbons hanging from them every few inches. I lease the trees, so I can not stop what the landowner has agreed to. In NY we have a very similar law to what NH has. AS part of my farm liability policy, I do have $1,000,000 liability coverage, but that was bought for my whole operation. When I get a new lease or venue I get a "certificate of insurance" to cover it, this does not raise my premium one cent. I do not carry the insurance because a trail crosses my sugarbush, I carry it because it is the safe thing to do in the land of too many lawyers, in case "anything" should ever happen, any place on my operation, u-pick fields, sugarhouse, sugarbush, farmers market, syrup problem blueberry, raspberry, other fruit, vegie issue, etc, etc.