DeLaval Dairy Pumps

[PerryFamily]

Due to budget constraints, I may end up going with a dairy pump setup. My buddy currently has a delaval setup that runs at 19-20" without problems. But the pump will actually build 25" ( I think ). The local dairy guy suggested not running that high due to heat I guess.

Question: Is there specific models that are better than others? ( higher vac, more cfm?? )

Question: Has anyone have made a set up to keep them cool, like a cooler or fan or something?

I would really like to go new and achieve high vac but my budget may not allow it. I would like to have an alternative.

The local dairy guy says he has parts for delaval and surge, as well as used reclaimers and other parts

Thanks in advance

[maple maniac65]

I have a delaval 73 that I run at 20" at the pump and have for 10 years now. The pump is probably 50 years old and has not ever been rebuilt. It has a oil resivoir in the bottom but no reclaimer. Go with what your wallet will cover and build from there.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

A dairy pump is a good inexpensive way to get vac. New is better of course, but 10 or 20 times as much. I am retiring my Delaval Model 76 this year after 20 years of sugaring and 30 years of milking before that. I think a lot of Maple producers use/have used the Model 76. I didn't have a reclaimer, so heat was certainly a problem. As a result, I didn't feel comfortable setting it above 18". If you took a standard dairy pump and added the reclaimer, you could solve most of the heating problems and increase vac level to 22". I've heard of some going up to 25".

Dairy pumps can be more leak tolerant as they have high CFM's. My pump ran 1400 taps at 18" with no problems.

Good luck

[mikeo]

Not all dairy pumps are equal but you might be surprised what they can build for vac when enough oil is put to them and they are kept cool. We can run 27-28 on 2850 taps with a modified dairy pump.

[Maplewalnut]

Have no problems keeping my sp-22 at 23-24 all season long. I change the oil every 7-10 days and put a fan on it later in the season to help keep it cool.

[500592]

Keep an eye on eBay I got an Atlantis fluidics liquid ring for 500 but missed one for like 280 both were 3 hp

[TheMapleMoose]

The cooler kit on our airablo isn't anything fancy, just a thermostatically controlled fan drawing air through a radiator. There are some issues with being too cool in a vane pump due to the pumps intolerance to condensation, but I'm sure you could make one....or buy one.

[PerryFamily]

Great info! Anyone have pictures of their setups, mainly the coolers?

Mikeo- Any pics or info on the modifications?

Can a dairy pump be run all season long? Obviously if it is going to be frozen for an extended time I would shut it off, but can you run the pump say at night at freeze up and not hurt it? My buddy says if the pump is not moving air ( frozen ) it wont draw oil?

Also , when someone uses the phrase the "flood" their dairy pump for better cooling and higher vac, what does that mean?

I see alot of dairy setups have a balance tank, it it necessary?

Thanks in advance

[500592]

I ran mine all year this year a big 5hp surge nonstop and it only got warm that was only around 19-20 inches anything over that and it got really hot really quick. I used a ball valve to adjust the vaccum and once I had set it I didn't have to touch it again. The vac guge never even moved when I was froze up so I hope that means I had a tight tubing system.

[TheMapleMoose]

7925
This is a pic of our cooler from the front I'll have to see if I can get some better pics. The kit on my 8cfm was about 700.00 from leader. It could possibly be built cheaper, I'm not sure. I figured I couldn't screw with it for that

[PerryFamily]

Looks like with a reclaimer and a small fan assisted cooler, like a automatic transmission cooler, you could build a cooler for sure. Now to figure out how to run a fan if the pump is gas powered.

Is a airablo pump basically a dairy style pump just built for higher vac and temperature? Looks that way anyway.

[PerryFamily]

Well, it looks like a dairy setup is how we will probably how we are going, unless I can find a a good used airablo or Indiana vac unit.

[BreezyHill]

Why are you retiring the 76 unit?

The reason the system didn't increase on vac with the ball valve, is the air that was let into to maintain the vac level would allow more air in as less volume came from the tubing system.

Flooding will still work on a pump when the lines become frozen as the pump does not care if the space it moves is taken by fluid or air. Flooding is simply adding oil to the vacuum line from drippers that are adjustable to supply oil for lubrication and additional cooling. The drippers can be adjust to a higher rate as the outside temps increase toward the end of season.

I run a delaval without a vac control unit or a balance tank. The larger the pump the less useful the balance tank will be. The balance tank is designed for when a dairy farm would connect several milkers at one time, like at the start of milking. The pump would bring the balance tank to 15" so when a 3-7 gallon tank was connect to the line at 0" the sudden flow of air in the system would be immediately absorbed and brought to 15".

In a sap system if the line going to the releaser is of enough size there is little need to have a balance tank...unless there are sap surges that coming down the mains. The sap surges would be followed by areas of low vacuum in the line that were behind the surge since the line was filled to capacity and did not allow vacuum to transfer over the sap flow.

The gas motor will be able to charge a battery if it is electric start. Purchase a 12v fan to blow air thru a cooler; or set up a cooler so that a fan could be connect to the pulley of the vac pump or the motor to blow air thru the cooler.

My system is a d 73 for last season and will be adding a d 75 that will be used when the temp hits 30 to lower the vac as fast as possible on thawing. I am also going to have a timer set up to start pumps on a time schedule depending on weather.

Personally, I am not sold on the 24/7 vacuuming. The 24/7 would seem to have a much higher probability of causing small leaks to increase and leaks to generate in weak spots at connections when there is nothing for the pump to work with from the trees.

On a low vac system the concern is much less, but on 27+, much more; as it really sucks replacing mainline sections in a rush after it has failed during season.

I would be interested in the 76 for tear down and seeing where the failure was at.

Thanks Ben

[500592]

If you are talking to me about a76 it wasn't a delaval it was a surge model d I had a delaval and it was a piece of crap I used a ton of oil and ran really hot at only 17 inches it stopped working after only a few days do I switched to the surge. I kind of doubt that an unmodified dairy pump can run at 27 inches. I just wound up junking the delaval because it was uh a piece of crap.

[rayi]

There just seems to be alot of pumps out there but when you go to the site there is no info on that pump. Gast is a good example you might be looking at a 1065-V3B but there is a listing for 1065-V2B only. Surge seems worse really no info surge 1200. would it work

[para2]

Running a delaval 40/41 pulseamatic. Ran numerous days 24hrs straight. 29inches at pump and kept26 @ the farthest tap approx. 1800 feet.we have 500 taps on this wet/dry system.

[unc23win]

There just seems to be alot of pumps out there but when you go to the site there is no info on that pump. Gast is a good example you might be looking at a 1065-V3B but there is a listing for 1065-V2B only. Surge seems worse really no info surge 1200. would it work

I have a Gast pump that was discontinued and I e-mailed tech support and they sent PDF files with the manual and spec sheets. Maybe they don't have them for all not sure for me the tech guy wrote back each time within minutes.

[BreezyHill]

I rebuild pumps...the main reason for heat is a bearing going bad or a moisture trap has an issue. The inside of the chamber is rusty so the vanes scrubbed the housing. This causes friction/heat and scores the vane so it cant make vac well. I have another that I will take pics as it comes apart and rebuild it is locked tight. Likely a bearing is setup from moisture. The trap had about a cup of water. The trap was sized right but never drained daily so the moisture would have traveled to the pump. I have a 73 that was running hot and the bearing has tiny rust spots that adds friction/heat. This pump also used atf, not pump oil and that causes heating issues also. ATF will suspend water...pump oil will separate the water out in a few hours.

Always check the oil drain plug for water before you start the pump...every time. End of season drain the oil and add new.
There are lots of modifications that can be done to cool any pump.

Ben
This 75 will get all new bearings and vanes then she will get polished and should run 28-29 for along time provided a correctly sized moisture trap is in place.
To many people use an undersized trap and cause pump failure.
The inside of the housing is a 320 polish it shines lick a mirror. A little water setting from washing the lines will rust that quickly. Then the pump starts alittle hard the next season and then she never seems to have the same performance as last season...must be a leak in the line. No...leak in the pump.

[PerryFamily]

located a couple honda gas powered complete setups. I think he said they were delaval 76. Ran on 1000 + taps each.
We have entered the VACUUM world.
Just what I was looking for, complete proven setups. Now to modify to keep cool for maximum VAC.

[kingpin]

Does anyone know anything about a surge sp200 vacuum pump. We have a chance to purchase one but I can't find any info on it. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[BreezyHill]

Great job! Don't forget to check the bearings/bushings when adding the drip lines. An additional line into the vac inlet helps a bunch with cooling also. Here is a source of vanes if they are poor...they also have the drippers if you want a kit others wise ebay for needle valves in a pack of three. Ebay has the mini lines also.
http://www.agrilac.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63&It emid=1

Take the time to open the case and shine the housing and she should last a long time. 76s are a great pump.

[PerryFamily]

Breezy- These are complete setups minus one releaser. When you say 'put a line in the inlet' do you mean an oil line? Kinda like flooding it along with the drippers?

[BreezyHill]

Yes...provided you are looking to run around 26 to 28" the two lines will do the pulley and other end of the shaft. To keep her cooler a little onto the vanes will make a big difference. You do have an oil reclaimer on them right? Oiling the bearings will add longevity to the unit but cooling is also needed. Under high vac you don't have that much cool air entering the unit. The cool oil will aid in cooling. I say a brand new 200 cfm unit on one of my dairy accounts it screams on a 10 hp motor. Oil injected to the bearings and the inlet. 25 gallon oil reclaimer and it is a little on the small side yesterdays heat had it still putting oil vapor out.

[PerryFamily]

One of the units has a reclaimer already and the other has only the small cup for oil. There is a dairy guy that has several pretty large reclaimers for like $20, so I will grab one of those.

Is it possible to put too much oil on the bearings?

He also has all of the dripper parts in stock as well.

[PerryFamily]

Just wanted to clarify I have yet to see either of these pumps. All I know is what the gentleman told me. Honda powered De La Valle 76 with reclaimer Check valves moisture traps and onea releaser. I'm hoping to pick them up Monday afternoon. Its far enough to the north I need to brush up on my French in order to get there!!

[BreezyHill]

We, parlay vow franca? Just remember cash is the universal language. Dead Presidents tell no lies. Its the live owns that speak with forked tongue. lol Good Luck! Send some pics. Say a really nice Alamo reclaimer last weekend. I am designing an aluminum heat sink for my Delaval 75 and 73. I am looking to get the oil back down to under 100 before it goes in the pump but I hate the idea of having to run a fan. I am removing the pump from the sugar room to try and have it a little cooler. It has always exhausted outside so any vapor isn't an issue in the sugar house. I just hate to spend the $$$ on the vacuum oil at $24+ a gallon. Good Luck!

[BAP]

Make sure you use an oil reclaimer with drippers. Run flexible copper tubing from the drippers to the oil inlet ports on the pump. The plastic tubing for oil will melt off if the pump gets to hot and ruin the bearings and vanes. The biggest culprit for making the pump hot is not enough air flow thru the pump at high vacuum especially if the lines are frozen. If you are going to run it non-stop put a vacuum regulator in the line to let some air in when froze up. Keeping plenty of fresh air is important. Setting a 20" box fan next to the pump blowing air on the pump will do wonders on keeping it cool. Another thing is using good quality vacuum pump oil. Not all pump oils are the same. DeLaval makes really good oil that works good in high vacuum. Make sure the exhaust port on the pump is plumbed so that the pipe runs uphill into the oil reclaimer. This will keep the oil from leaving the pump too fast. Also do the same with the pipe leaving the oil reclaimer as this will help the oil stay in the reclaimer. Another important thing is to make sure the pump is level from side to side so that the drum does not walk sideways and score the end covers. Keeping moisture out of it is important especially using a releaser. Put some sort of moisture trap ahead of the pump. I learned these tricks spending many years keeping several vacuum pumps running. The best setup I had was a DeLaval #78 slowed down and run with a 3HP motor. This pulled a lot of vacuum and stayed cool. Good Luck.

[BreezyHill]

BAP, the pump that scored the housing plate was this on the pulley end or the dead end of the shaft. It is very difficult to get the shaft to walk if the drive motor is oriented true to the shaft of the pump. If the drive pulley( of the moor) is not square to the driven pulley, of the vac pump, the vacuum pump's shaft could loosen and work toward a cover depending on which way the alignment is off. After sliding in the bearing(s) it would have to wear down the vane to make drum/cover contact.
Vacuum rooms are designed with sloped floors for sanitation and the pump will not be level.

Great point on getting an over sized pump and turning it slower to reduce the friction energy.

When adjusting the drippers do it at a high flow time or at a time when vacuum is at a low; thus when the lines freeze and higher vac is experienced there will be a higher flow of oil due to more pull on the oil line.
Metal lines next to the pump being copper for a distance is a good idea...but a length of plastic is needed to check the flow of the lines. Its the same black plastic vs colored mains discussion. The draw back of the copper line is you will need to run them out of the heat transfer area of the pump to keep the oil cooler/less hot. While on the other hand a loop or coil of the copper line can be used to further dissipate heat from the oil. Well, that is where a non contact laser thermometer is good to check the status of the pump. Great for finding failing bearings and to check your flow rate affects on bearing temps too.

Great input BAP!

[PerryFamily]

Great Info keep it coming!

Have been thinking about the reclaimer and heat. Was thinking about building an aluminum reclaimer out of an old beer keg. I think the aluminum would dissipate the heat better? Maybe even add some fins on the side like an Airablo looking reclaimer. Then send the oil through the filter and into a smaller automotive style cooler, like a power steering cooler, no fan.

Think it would work ?

[BreezyHill]

Personally I am going with the aluminum heat sink theory. The auto cooler and fan lends it self to leak issues from the vibration factor of the fan and vacuum pump. The Issue is not that it will leak but when will it leak. Murphy's law says it will leak when there is nobody around, to notice the leak, and the pump will fail due to a lack of oil. The heat sink can be made so that it can be connected to the frame of the vac pump so that it will shake with the pump. Dampeners work...until they fail and boom! I just spent $1200 fixing an EGR cooler and oil cooler ...because of silica and minerals from the water added to dilute the antifreeze plugged the oil cooler and starved the EGR cooler and the heat of the exhausted melted the cooler tubes. The new "bullet proof" coolers act like a heat sink no more fins for the coolant to flow across and all welded joints. So lesson learned! Heat sink it is. Also learned, is the use of a inexpensive aquastat to monitor the temp of the pump hooked to a light & buzzer in the sap house, to alert of a high temp situation is worth some $$$.

[PerryFamily]

Ben-Sounds like you may own a JUNK 6.0 Ford Powerchoke diesel? ( All kidding aside I am a big Ford truck fan, just not the 6.0 )

I think I am gonna roll with what I got for now, maybe try a few things to keep it cool this time of year , then it should be good for spring.

I know what you mean about murphys law: I stopped at my buddies bush ( i buy sap from them ) and his oil filter had broken off due to vibration! Pump still running, making vacuum. I shut it off. He fixed it. Still going. Must be right place right time!!

[BreezyHill]

Well I am a/was a ford fan. 6.9 with 289 k, 7.3 with 495k, 6.0 with 138k and I have put more $$$ in to the 6.0 than the other two combined. But now I know what I should have been doing all along. Are three IH w/ 466 and a KW all have coolant filters and that is the next thing to do to the 6.0. We run these trucks. The leave with 2-3 tons of bagged feed every time on the F350 DRW. I am not a big fan of automatics. We run Goose neck trailers and had a chevy DRW 3500 that cost me a fortune. So it was back to Fords. I don't know of anybody that does what we do with any other truck and keep them alive as long as I do.
That said I looked at the 6.4 and bought the 6.0, My buddy is a Ford Mech. and the 6.7 is having a little issue with bearings going when people don't use the right oil. 10w30 in summer...I like rotella T 15w40. Had her apart for injectors at 115k and she looked good. No sulfur in the fuel and the injectors looked like burned marshmallows on the ends. Carbon so thick... Over all I like the truck...and if you are in a trk for 6 hrs three days a week you better like it...otherwise sell it fast. If you don't have a coolant filter system...get on ebay NOW and buy one. It is not to late. I know a guy that changed three EGR coolers before he added them on his fleet and the trucks with them...no issue. First filter is often plugged in 500 miles second by another 1000. I don't like the idea of changing a filter in a week but if it gets that sludge out, so be it. By the third filter they claim you are good for a year. Synister is the unit I am getting. Still looking for a 7.3 turbo with a stick. I actually would like two runners and a few for parts. Oops this is the maple site. Ya I have diesel in my viens with the syrup.

[PerryFamily]

When you said bulletproof I instantly knew what you were talking about. I put the same kit on a Ford I had it really made a difference, right to life. also eliminated the EGR on it all together at the same time. I have a friend that sells GM so that's what I'm currently driving but I've on numerous Ford in the past. for me the backseat of the extended cab is just not big enough in thethe ford the GM isn't much better but it's definitely better. it just stinks when you buy a pick up and have to spend a ton of money just to get it to be reliable and run right.

[BreezyHill]

I went with the crew cab as the three boys were getting bigger, now all at or +- 6'. Besides I can stick 35 bags of feed in the back with the platform down seats up. I have seen up close all the issues of security lock outs, and computer issues on the GM line so I stick with the tried and true. I cant baby these trucks so they have to standup or go down the road to somebody that is just going to play with them. The biggest load on the 6.9 was a 740 JD skidder that measured 12' wide with the float tires. Went up a mountain road without any problems. 10 ton wheat in a dump trailer etc. Just good machine. Now we have as much hp as our semi had, in a 1 ton. I guess things are bound to go wrong.

The only pump Delaval has that would have an issue with to much oil is the 74. Straight rotary housing like an Alamo, so the oil all goes out the outlet and must be reclaimed. Customer that milks goats got a new little vacuum pump. The Tag said use high detergent motor oil or high quality vacuum oil. It is a rotary about the size of a half gallon syrup jug in diameter. Seems odd since vacuum oil is designed to vapor as a cooling property were motor oil and ATF are designed not to vapor just lubricate. But I don't recall seeing an way for the oil to get back in the pump.

[PerryFamily]

Picked up the pumps today. Essentially two complete setups minus one releaser and one oil reclaimer. I think I did pretty good. Now to build a couple small pump houses and they will be good to go. Pictures to follow if i am smart enough to figure out how to post them !!

[PerryFamily]

Anyone know how to identify model # on delaval pumps?

Is there casting # on them somewhere?

Just looking to verify that the two 76 pumps I just bought are in fact 76 pumps

[BreezyHill]

76 was a model, made to replace the 75 that was mounted on a oil storage compartment. The compartment and motor base are one piece cast iron for heat dispersal. Where the 76 is a simpler pump with no base just a simple mounting bracket below the inlet.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=delaval+76+vacuum+pump+image&id=3A2C3F0C293546ECD499CBEF4C2B1CF885B65C81&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=3A2C3F0C293546ECD499B2D4C7F265B13E9E71E0&selectedIndex=30

That link has a good pic of a 76. Search delaval 76 vacuum pump images and you can find a few good pics of oiler setups feeding both bearing sides of the vane drum.

They are a good pump but oil cooling is important as they don't have the mass of a 75's housing and frame to disperse heat; but that is the way of the current design as well. Send a pic when you get a chance. Is there an oil cooler or just a large reclaimer to disperse the oil heat?

Since they are new to you, it may be wise to check the bearings and vanes before you run them. It is really quite simple to open the case a slide off the face plate. Most models the bearing is in the cast case with the oil inlet behind. Just check that the balls of the bearing are shine and no black dots or rough spinning. It is has any catch or not a smooth rotation it is junk and must be changed. The hesitation will cause big heat issues and shortly after that the ball will fail and eat the housing with the vane drum. The growling that a pump makes when you turn it by hand or when it starts is a bad bearing. These units run hot...usually very hot. If a water trap is left with any moisture in it during the off season the bearings will fail before long. The moisture gets vaporized during the summer and migrates to the pump. The pump is larger and will condensate the vapor...then you have rust. The older style of pump you just changed the oil at the end of season and water was gone. This style you didn't have to change the oil it just went out with the exhaust, thus the oil you use is very important. Plug an oil line, melt a line, let the reservoir run dry, bad oil, at its done. Good pumps but a little more of a maintance issue.

[BreezyHill]

Ok...look only at the VP 76...they also show a 78, 777, 74, and several others too. The 76 is the wider housing, 74 was half the width. Sorry I saw the 76 and didn't look any further.

[PerryFamily]

Well it looks like they are 76. I think I may just bring them to the dairy guy to go through them. I have a ton going on and it may just be easier. There is only one reclaimer and no coolers. I was going to try to find a transmission cooler or power steering cooler to put before the filter, will need to weld on some support brackets.

Also thinking of a way to be able to have them shut off at night on their own. Since the honda motor has the electric kill switch might be able to have it shut off with temperature, at like 28 degrees? It would save another trip and if it runs all night It should stay running.

Any thoughts?

[BreezyHill]

The shut of is easy
Ranco ETC 111000 Digital Aquastat

run the feed thru this.

[pls009]

Running a delaval 40/41 pulseamatic. Ran numerous days 24hrs straight. 29inches at pump and kept26 @ the farthest tap approx. 1800 feet.we have 500 taps on this wet/dry system.

Digging up an old thread here - Para2 - do you still have that 40/41 pulseamatic? I was given a 54/56 Pulseamatic and it seems to work by hand and I want to see if I can make something out of it for a small system. Wondering if a 40/41 is similar and how you flooded it? 13808