Vacuum Dilemma over very flat area.

[red maples]

So by the 2014 season I will have 450 to 500 taps over a very flat piece of land about 100 of them are actually sloped nicely up a small hill. the remainder are on a very flat and have slight grade and I will have to add in more sap ladders to get them to work at all.

right now I am running a bb2 low CFM's but pulls high vac. 25" to 27" I know its already too small for as many taps as its pulling now. its best was at about 225 to 250 taps.

I know I need second releaser and dump station in order to get rid of the sap ladders and make the system more productive. I wanna basically cut my whole tubing system in 1/2. I don't have to run any additional tubing just adjust the slope. which will be a pain but will work out in the long run.

so do I get one bigger pump and run 2 lines out of it to both releasers or just get another smaller pump and run a dry line out to the second releaser and just pump it back to the sugarhouse. The property in that area is not very wide its about 250 ft by 1000 ft. and I have things draining pretty close to the middle of it length wise.

I would think the most efficient and most economical way would be to just get another smaller evap and releaser and a gas pump out in the woods on the other side and pump it back to the sugarhouse. and I would think I would be in the range of hopefully $1500 to $2000 to get that all set up.

A reverse slope would just be a huge amount of money for 250 taps. Provided I would need to spend a huge amount of money to get a vac pump with enough CFM at the releaser to for it to work right.

I would put it in the middle with one station but its pretty swampy and the water can get high during the spring that's part of my problem.

any thoughts??? I think the 2 pump system is the best idea but if anyone has anything else that would be great!!!

[brookledge]

Do you have good access to the middle or even the outside? The reason I ask is I have an area that I wanted to have my releaser low. I took a bottom half of a 1500 gal septic tank and burried it in the ground. built a roof over it and insulated it. My releaser dumps into a small tub that is then pumped out by a sump pump.
Many places by the time you put a tank on the ground and your releaser on top of that your main line is 5 to 6 feet in the air. That doesn't work on real flat land. So as long as the area doesn't flood too much you could try that
Keith

[BreezyHill]

Brad,
Sounds like a great bb2...I have a bb1 and a bb4, good pumps...I pulled the bb2 off line and use a Delaval 73...much quieter.
How are your ladders set up? I have a series of 3 and use a leakers... one on the first ladder and one on the second. The ladders work very well as they carried about 100 taps and my average on all was .47g/t for the season. I think it would have been much higher had I switched pumps earlier in the season. I tested the D 73 and got 10 cfm at 25" and 3.68 cfm at 28".
Personally, my ladders work great, and I would never go back to the days of hauling sap or having pumps in the woods. It really sucks when you get those storms that dump 24" and you have to dig out the pump house. Three or four years back we had a storm that gave as drifts 14' high. It took one day with a big 4x4 tractor and loader to clear the yard. Even our snow groomer was parked due to the huge drifts in the woods. We never would have found the pumps if we were not on ladders that year.

For 2% slope over 500' you only need one ladder of 10'. Make it 12.5' tall and you have 2.5% slope.

I would look for a Delaval 75. I have one I will be rebuilding shortly and will have the CFMs on it when done. I expect it to be around 2x of the D 73. Surge Alamos are good pumps also. I recall hearing an A 40 is about the size of a D 75.

No reason you cant plumb both pumps to the releaser and run the bb2 when things are frozen and when your vac level drops kick in the bigger pump. That way you have a second pump ready to go. I plan to have the bb4 the 73 and 74 all plumbed together for 2014. Running wide open they tend to get hot. So I will be able to shut one down and let her cool while another takes over. The 73 was $100 while the 75 was $50. Since somebody put the word out they don't make good vacuum levels above 15" they are really cheap.

Have you ever seen a dairy releaser? They use/lose no vacuum when set up right. I bought a surge unit off ebay for $150...water trap, glass releaser and stainless steel pump on a heavy metal panel. Four lag bolts and 110 power and you are good to go...after you attach the mains and the vac of course. She will handle around 600 gallons an hour...or around 3000 taps. I got it for a standby unit in case the Delaval jar or pump has an issue.

How tall are your ladders now?

Ben

[GeneralStark]

Brad,

On the new land I am setting up shop on there is good slope through most of the woods, but because there is a plateau where we are putting all the buildings that is slightly higher than the lowest spot mainlines will have to cross, I am running into a kind of "flat" situation for some of the mainlines. In other words, while the land is not flat, the mainlines would be flat for about 100' if I just set them up conventionally with a releaser on top of a tank. I have considered putting a tank and releaser at the lowest spot on the property which is about 1-2' lower than the sugarhouse floor and then pumping sap about 200' to the sugarhouse. What I am now thinking I will do is use this electric releaser I am putting together and just place it on the floor of the sugarhouse in the heated room and pump to the outdoor tanks. In this arrangement the mainlines will be about 3' above the sugarhouse floor and I can just pitch the mainlines from the woods across the low area to the sugarhouse.

The reason I am mentioning this is perhaps you could consider an electric releaser at the lowest spot you can find, and then pump from there to the sugarhouse. I'm not sure if you are planning to put power out in to the woods to run your vacuum pump there or if you will run a vac line from the sugarhouse, but if power is an option, you could consider an electric releaser as then you can place it directly on the ground and not on a tank. Sounds like flooding may be an issue though, so the water height would need to be considered.

In regards to one vs. two vacuum pumps, unless you are siting the second pump in the woods, I would think it would make sense to buy one larger pump with adequate cfms for 500+ taps and place it in the sugarhouse and then run two oversized vac. lines to your releaser. Something tells me you could easily sell the pump you have and with an ro in the plan it is time for a heated room anyway. Go for a good 3-phase liquid ring pump with water for your service fluid, and couple it with a vfd and vac. transducer and you will be good to go.

Anyway, not sure of this helps but just tossing out some ideas.

[red maples]

I think what I am gonna do is look into a bigger pump. there is a HEAVY duty vein pump that are pretty cheap and run about 17 CFM. a bb2 is about 3 CFM. Even if I miss a tap or 1 falls out there is still good vacuum through out the remaining lines. so that would be a big jump from where I am not and would do well with or without sap ladders and although I am planning to elimate them the best I can even if I don't I will still do better even if I leave them in. then run a line out to the second releaser and pump it back to the sugarhouse and run a 220 line out to the second dump station. The only decision I will have to make is to get a small jet pump out there with a float switch or an electric releaser out there to pump it back the advantage to the electric is more sap due to the fact that they run continuous but cost a lot more and with the jet pump I have to make sure its emptied during freezes or its garbage. so drawbacks to ever situation but the bigger pump is the way to go!!!

[GeneralStark]

There are drawbacks and advantages to the electric releaser. Pros: constant vac., no tank needed (though some backup required for power outages), can be placed lower so pitching mainlines could be easier, etc. Cons: finding a pump that can handle high vac., some backup needed for power outages, etc.

Regardless of which type of releaser and pump you go with, if you are going to run power you can easily build a small insulated box to keep the releaser or pump in and heat it with a couple incandescent bulbs. I have had good success with keeping my mechanical releaser from freezing using this method.