Bees wax as a defoamer!!??

[red maples]

Just reading in the maple news that a big operation in VT is using bees wax as a defoamer, anyone heard of this before? makes sense but want a little feed back I get a few pounds of bees wax from my hives every year and every 4-5 years I plan on changing out the wax foundation in the brood boxes. He says it complies with organic and Kosher rules and is the best defoamer he ever used.

[stoweski]

No, but I'm willing to give it a try... though I don't think I'll be using comb from the brood box. I'll stick to burr comb or cappings. From the looks of the picture he's using cappings wax.

Wonder if it adds a little to the flavor. Also wonder how much to add at a time. On a 2x6 I'd guess not much.

Now to steal some from the wife - she won't like the fact that I'm using wax for sugaring instead of making candles.

[red maples]

yeah the pics are a nice brite yellow. the brood wax is usually a dull brown/grey once you get it melted down. I think the amount that you would use would be enough to impart any flavor and I am sure it wouldn't make it through the filters.

[bees1st]

It will go through the filters quite nicely. I filter beeswax at 150 degrees through t shirt material. 100% edible though when it does make it through.

[Mark]

I would only use wax from hives that were not treated with drugs.

[CBOYER]

could this use have a problem with allergy ??

http://www.ehow.com/about_6527946_allergic-beeswax.html

[wiam]

If there is an allergy issue with defoamer from Leader which is labeled for maple use, I think I would have less liability than if I used something else that I thought might work good.

[Gary R]

A question for you bee guy's, how can the wax comply with organic. I have seen a couple of people around here selling organic honey. How can you keep the bees from getting pollen from potentially sprayed blossoms?

[spud]

I often wondered the same thing with Clover Honey. They say bee's are very smart so if their told to stay away from other blossoms must be they will:rolleyes: Like I have said many times before the whole Organic thing is a joke. All it is intended to do is lead people to think the food they have been eating is poison. So if you love your children (another great sales pitch) then you will only feed them organic foods grown by your local farmers. The only reason people go Organic is because of the money they can make from it. That is why I'm Organic. The food sold in stores is just fine to eat, the problem we Americans have is the amount of food we eat. I have never seen so many overweight people in my life until I moved back to Vermont. Yet Vermont claims to be the healthiest state in the Union. Going Organic will not fix our health problems we face in America (but it will not hurt it either). What will fix the problem is shutting fat people off of health insurance until they take the first steps to bettering their own health. If Big Betty chooses to eat at Burger King everyday and then chase her lunch down with a shake then that is a choice she has made for herself. No American tax payer or Insurance company should have to pay her medical bills. American's need to be taught personal responsibility and accountability to their own actions. Our country is failing before our very eye's and we the people need to make some changes real soon. We can blame our political leaders for all these problems but really it is our own fault.

Spud

[Mark]

For organic honey you need a 2 or 3 mile radius around the hives that have no chemicals. That may not even work because bees will pick up anything that is sweet when there is no honey flow.

Check out this colored honey.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/pictures/121011-blue-honey-honeybees-animals-science/

[red maples]

Thanks spud, for your opinion which you are entitled too. I disagree with you but that's off topic from my point. and the organic debate is for a another thread. don't get me wrong I am not mad or trying to be rude so please don't take it as such just trying to keep it friendly. might even start a thread of organic opinions.... enough said on that. I will start an organic thread in the "sugaring inn"and we can exchange blows there!! ;)

I agree if youre using beeswax it needs to be from hive without the use of any antibiotics or pesticides etc. which I don't use any of that in my hives I take an organic approach to everything I do. I was just looking for more info on possibly using beeswax as a defoamer and if anyone has tried it.

I was not aware there were beeswax allergies. I would think it might be one of the aditives. Some beeswax lipbalms use almond oil and if there is a nut allergy then the symptoms described in the link from CBOYER sound more like a nut allergy. not that I am a doc. or know a lot about allergies, just saying.

[red maples]

For organic honey you need a 2 or 3 mile radius around the hives that have no chemicals. That may not even work because bees will pick up anything that is sweet when there is no honey flow.

Check out this colored honey.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/pictures/121011-blue-honey-honeybees-animals-science/

that's a little scary.

[500592]

That guy can get away with it the way his boils being steam and in a wood evaporator it would make it through. That is what I heard from an ag inspector. I would stay away from it.

[red maples]

hmmm never throught of that. I would think he makes a lot of lighter syrup as well. even though he's concentrating to 24% so he says must be a pain getting that through an RO at that concentration?

[500592]

I am confused on what your asking red maples do you mean it is hard to get the ro to 24% because if so a lot of people do that and a lot on do it on two passes

[stoweski]

My only concern is the damage that beeswax may do to my filters. I do not have a filter press and use a synthetic flat filter. Any wax that gets trapped in the filter will cause it to clog. Not sure it will come out with the usual washing.

No chemicals used in our hives for treatment. Get your comb tested and I'm sure, unless you own all of the land the bees can travel to, your honey will have traces of several chemicals. Just the way it is now, unfortunately. As for the nectar, what the bees bring in is not under my control. Honestly, I see the differences in honey (look at clover honey vs. buckwheat honey) but for the average hobbyist or sideliner it's awfully difficult to claim you have specific types of honey. I have wildflower honey... as do most. I have a 35 acre field of alfalfa that is currently blossoming and sits 20' away from my hives. Unfortunately I can't tell my bees 'only go to those flowers' as there are also plenty of asters and clover mixed in... and I can't claim to have alfalfa honey. I just have the best tasting honey in the area. :D

Hey... my syrup is organic. That's enough for me. If I start using beeswax I suppose I'd have to pull the organic off of my label.

[RustyBuckets]

For the cost of a bottle of defoamer from a dealer why is this even a debate?

[bees1st]

Debate or discussion ? Discussion leads to new ideas , new ideas lead to improvements , improvements advance us as a whole.

[DrTimPerkins]

For the cost of a bottle of defoamer from a dealer why is this even a debate?

I believe this producer tried beeswax due to the lack of effective organic defoamers.

[DrTimPerkins]

My only concern is the damage that beeswax may do to my filters.

That is probably a reasonable concern. I haven't seen the use of beeswax in person, but as you can see from this article, this producer is not at all typical (70,000 taps, extremely high RO concentration, custom evaporator system, steam). Apparently the beeswax was effective as a defoamer, but I believe it does leave some wax residue on the pans and on any containers the syrup moves through after draw-off.

[red maples]

Debate or discussion ? Discussion leads to new ideas , new ideas lead to improvements , improvements advance us as a whole.

well said, I just saw it thought it might be a good idea. figured I'd ask.

but yeah without a filter press I would think flat and cone filters it would be tough and the wax would clog up the filters and be very difficult to wash.

[wiam]

That is probably a reasonable concern. I haven't seen the use of beeswax in person, but as you can see from this article, this producer is not at all typical (70,000 taps, extremely high RO concentration, custom evaporator system, steam). Apparently the beeswax was effective as a defoamer, but I believe it does leave some wax residue on the pans and on any containers the syrup moves through after draw-off.

So........sounds like there is bees wax in the syrup. Is it still pure maple syrup?

[Mark]

So........sounds like there is bees wax in the syrup. Is it still pure maple syrup?

You could ask the same question about defoamer in the syrup.

[DrTimPerkins]

So........sounds like there is bees wax in the syrup. Is it still pure maple syrup?

No, I didn't say that. However, even if some amount of material made it through to the syrup, it would be considered a defoamer and allowed. My post was mainly aimed at letting people know that this it is still fairly early in the trials of this material. If you want to give it a try, go right ahead, but don't be surprised if unwanted/unforeseen issues arise (including a build up of wax on your pans, filters, etc.).

[red maples]

thanks Doc. seems like it might be a mess. and that's why sometimes you gotta just throw it there and see what you get back even if it seems too good to be true(an a lot of times it is!!!)