Might have a new woods!!!!!!!!

[whitetail farms]

talked to a neighbor of mine yesterday and he is intereste in leasing is 80 acres to me to tap,thats isnt even a mile away from me, im gonna go back and walk the land with him next week and he wants to talk to another producer to find out about price per tap ,wich is okay with me cause im very good friends with the producer he wants to talk to;),but im looking to get about 400 taps there plus the 100 at my house then ill be maxed out and looking for a larger evaporator,only bad part is I have to wait till december to start tubeing cause hes have his property thinned currently but im very excited to see my operation grow from the 6 taps I started with 3 years ago on a homemade boiler to hopefully 500 taps in a 12X20 sugar house,ill also be looking for a filter press for next season if this lease does work out,hopeing for the best,and best of wishes to everyone with there projects over the summer,nick

[maple flats]

Congratulations on the prospect. Anytime you get a lease, get it in writing, 5 yr min., preferably 10 yrs. Spell out what each parties responsibility is. State the per tap rate and the criteria for determining the rate as the lease progresses.
Next question, do you possibly do enough business from farming (all farming, not just maple, from all properties you farm) to show $10,000 sales a year. If yes and you can show an average of $10,000 over the last 2 years, help the land owner get an agricultural assessment. I do that and their savings on property taxes can amount to even more than the lease payment. ( my last landowner told me his tax savings were about 3x what the lease payment was the first year (I had 493 taps that year, I'm now at over 800, and adding 200-300 again this year.)
While several factors help determine the right rate, as an example, my newest lease was for $.75/tap last year and the lease states it changes relative to the Social Security rate of inflation (or deflation?) annually. The lease should specify when your lease payment is to be paid. Mine is due before the end of June each year. I give them syrup at the gallon rate for as much as they are interested in regardless of which size plastic jug they choose. The rest is then paid by check. I give them the syrup during the season and the check is delivered in June. You can choose any method that suits you. I wrote my own leases, using the suggested Vermont Lease that is found online, but I customized it to suit me. My leases even state that if the landowner sells the property, the remaining term of the lease goes with the property, and the new owner is bound until that lease runs it's term. You should also define whgo can cut trees, (can you thin?), who gets the wood, and other issues involved.

[whitetail farms]

yup im going to use that same contract you found and change it around a little I wont be doing any thing as he has a management plan already with another logger, nd I cant help him any with the taxes yet buy maybe in a couple years is it just 10,000 in sales or does it all have to be profit though?

[maple flats]

Sales only, if it was profit likely 99% of the Ag assessments would be lost. You can even show a loss, but sales must the average $10,000 over the last 2 years on your taxes. This means you must file the farm income/loss schedule. You can then depreciate everything you use in equipment, even including the tubing.

[whitetail farms]

okay ill look into that, the plan is to go look at the woods next Friday after im done with school and all my regents testing so it not on my mind and im zoneing of about how to set it up,but im very excited and cant wait to start planning it out

[vtmapleman]

I don't know the ny tax rules about claiming farm income; however, on your federal forms you cannot use the farm schedules unless you make 50% of your income from agriculture - otherwise you have to use schedule C. Another point I would strongly disagree with is writing into your contract that if property is sold that the buyer is held responsible to follow the lease - good luck with that one! Unless you have had it recorded in the deed it would almost impossible to enforce.

[maple flats]

I don't know the ny tax rules about claiming farm income; however, on your federal forms you cannot use the farm schedules unless you make 50% of your income from agriculture - otherwise you have to use schedule C. Another point I would strongly disagree with is writing into your contract that if property is sold that the buyer is held responsible to follow the lease - good luck with that one! Unless you have had it recorded in the deed it would almost impossible to enforce.
I'm not sure where you got that information, but my accountant has filed form F, farm income, for me for 32 years. Over that period I have had 4 different accountants, two were enrolled agents, one was a CPA and the forth is just a registered tax preparer. My farm income has never reached 50% of my income, sales have recently but income has never.

[Clarkfield Farms]

As Dave said, we filed a Sch. F for 2012 and our accountant is the man who's done my in-laws' farm taxes since he became an accountant decades ago; the firm he started with way back then had been in business since the 1930's and they'd been doing the farm's taxes since it started in the mid 40's. If it weren't legit, he wouldn't do it. And our gross receipts were really "gross," lol! But, feet wet, foot in the door, and it's necessary for fighting the Town where we're STILL at war trying to get permission to build our sugar house!!! At least the State's 100% in our corner, glad to see Ag hasn't gone the way of the rest of Albany...

[sugarman3]

Good for you nick,if i can help you out in any way,give me a shout ,wlling to help if i can

[whitetail farms]

okay thanks Vern I plan to setup a wet dry system even if I just run it on gravity for the first year it will be all ready to be hooked up for vacuum in couple of years, I Think there might be a woods walk in order in your bush this summer, what do you say?

[maple flats]

okay thanks Vern I plan to setup a wet dry system even if I just run it on gravity for the first year it will be all ready to be hooked up for vacuum in couple of years, I Think there might be a woods walk in order in your bush this summer, what do you say?
When I set up my woods that was to become a wet/dry system, I only put up the wet line and the mains the first year. I had a manifold that would go to the dry line the next year, the end of the manifold facing up for future dry line was just plugged. No laterals entered the wet line, only mains and the laterals all entered at the mains. The next year I added the dry line, along with some more mains and laterals. This way I got into wet/dry without shelling out all the investment in one year, since I bought a 1000 gal tank, a vacuum pump and the wet line in the same year, along with the labor investment to install it all. On my second and larger bush I was able to put in the wet/dry all the first year from proceeds from the previous year. Take it in steps if you must, just design it for wet/dry in the beginning. The way I now do wet/dry is even faster, easier and more forgiving if a tree/limb falls on the line and would be even easier to go wet/dry in stages. I have no mainfold now, I just T the main into the wet conductor and back a few feet in the main I tee a dry off, facing upward and loop it up then down into the dry line about a foot above the wet line. My first ones wet a wye where they each entered the conductors but I find a wye more time consuming to install, I now use tees.

[whitetail farms]

that's exactly my plan ill put in a wet line and mains and laterals this year then go back and put in a dry line and tie everything together with the T s and a loop, m also putting up used laterals that where either free or I payed very little for next season then once I put in a dry line and vacuum ill replace them, here will be new drops and taps though for this year and I get tank for free, I plan to set this woods up the right way but split up the investment as much as I can I look forward to all the help and advice that is offered here on the trader, hanks nick

[whitetail farms]

well I looked at the woods, not what I was expecting probably about 300 hundred taps total but really spread out over 55 acres, there is one ridge in the back of the property that has some good drop and there's about 150 taps there so if we can agree on a very low price per tap I might tap that ridge and anything along the way out to the road witch would give me around 230 taps there so im still looking into I also have a few other properties to look at so finger are crossed that ill find something nice