domion grimm 700

[the old guy]

I TOLD YOU GUYS I WOULD HAVE A JILLION QUESTIONS.

I BOUGHT THE D&G FROM DAVE BASCOM. IT IS A 1996 MODEL 700. THE PANS LOOK LIKE NEW. I REALLY THINK THE THING HAS BEEN USED VERY LITTLE. THE ARCH HAS INSULATION BOARD AND FIREBRICK LINING. THE BRICK ARE TIGHT BUT COULD USE SOME REFRACT CEMENT REPAIR. THE SKIN OF THE ARCH IS GALVANIZED AND HAS SOME DISCOLORATION. THE BLOWER IT HAS IS HOME MADE BUT WORKS JUST FINE. THE GRATES ARE HEAVY DUTY AND IT HAS A NEW GALVANIZED STACK. WE PUT IT TOGETHER BY GUESS.

SOME QUESTIONS: THE LINE FROM THE SAP PAN TO THE SYRUP PAN SEEMS LIKE IT NEEDS A LOCKING DEVICE. DOES ANYONE KNOW??

ONCE WE HAVE SAP, HOW DO WE BEGIN? HOW DO WE KNOW WHEN TO TRANSFER FROM THE SAP PAN TO THE SYRUP PAN? HOW DO WE OPERATE THE EVAPORATOR? THE SYRUP PAN HAS THREE SECTIONS--DO WE FINISH THE SYRUP THERE OR DO WE DRAW OFF AND FINISH ON A PROPANE BURNER?

WE ARE NEW TO EVAPORATORS. WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE THE FLAT PAN AND TRANSFER BY HAND METHOD IN THE PAST. THE EVAPORATOR WITH DROP FLUES AND FLOATS ARE EASIER???

THE OLD GUY

[brookledge]

If it is drop flue than you only need one float to keep the level constant. You do not need any thing else. The float will keep the fresh sap coming in and as you boil off the water it will keep adding more.
As for draw off, you should be able to draw off finished syrup on the evaporator. Without a auto draw off most try to get the syrup to trickle out of the valve. It will take some time to learn what your rig is capable of.
If you have a raised flue then you need two floats one for each pan. as time goes on you will get the feel for it.
Thats the basics
Keith

[Pete33Vt]

Now that you have the rig setup, check to see if its level. Both front to back and side to side. If not, level it. Yes there should be a clamp to hold your sap line together. Is it a cross flow setup? (are there 2 syrup pans in the front) If not it reverse flow. With cross flow you will always draw off the same side. With reverse you will have to switch side.In your back pan, you should have a long pipe that lays on top of the flues. Thats used to carry the fresh sap to the front of your rear pan. By front I mean toward syrup pans. That should be on the side you draw off from. We like to run about 3/4"-1" of sap over top of the flues. But with being new to sugaring you could run more. It will take longer to boil down, but it gives you alittle bit of protection from burning pans. As brookledge said, your floats will take care of your levels of sap once they are set. You could get a bunch of water and run it through the rigs as you would sap. This will give you and idea of how your float system works. Also make sure you have a hydrometer. That will tell you when you have syrup. Like I said I would run my sap alittle deeper in the front pan then some people do until you get the feel of how your rig handles and boils.
Hope these sugesstions help.
Pete

[Parker]

There should be a thermometer in the syrup pan by the drawoff valve,,when the syrup gets to around 217 degrees test it with the hydrometer and see how far from syrup you are,,the temp of finished syrup will vary with your elevation and the barometric pressure,,,I would definatly run it with water in the pans for a few hours befor the season to get a feel for it,,,GOOD LUCK!!!!!

[the old guy]

I AM BEGINNING TO SEE HOW THIS THING WORKS. ONCE YOU GET GOING THE FLUE PAN FEEDS THE SYRUP PAN. EVERY THING STAYS AT THE SAME LEVEL. HENCE THE NEED TO HAVE IT LEVEL. THE TWO METAL STOPPERS, ARE THEY TO BE USED WHEN YOU DRAW OFF, OR WHEN YOU MUST STOP THE FLOW BETWEEN PANS FOR SOME REASON? THE EVAPORATOR HAS TWO PANS AND THE SYRUP PAN IS REVERSIBLE. WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU WANT TO QUIT FOR THE DAY?

ANOTHER QUESTION, I HAVE A 450 GAL BULK TANK TO FEED THE EVAPORATOR, WHAT SIZE LINE DO I RUN FROM THE TANK TO THE EVAPORATOR? IT LOOKS LIKE THE LINE TO THE FLOAT BOX MAY HAVE BEEN 1 INCH. THE COUPLING IS GALVANIZED, OKAY TO USE A GALVANIZED LINE?

THE OLD GUY

[royalmaple]

Is your evaporator raised or drop flue?

Sounds like it is drop flue. Also how big is it?

I think you are talking about the "plugs", which you can use to seal off the flue pan from the syrup pan if you have to, but make sure they are out when you start to boil. You could use them say if you wanted to switch the syrup draw off and you needed to change the connection. Or if you needed to clean the front pan and still had sap in the flue pan. Just plug the flue pan with one of the plugs, and you could drain the syup pan and clean it, then add back the syrup to the front pan and not really "lose" any headway. I've also use the plugs to plug off the float box if you needed to clean say the flue pan or drain it for some reason. but you don't want them in it during boil or draw off time. Just when everything is cold.

I think the fitting on the D&G's is 1 1/4 inches NPT, you can get a female NPT fitting to thread on the top of the float, You can get a Female NPT - to - Solder fitting. Then solder in copper pipe. Depending on the size rig you have, you maybe able to reduce down to 3/4 copper from the feed tank, since it will be able to keep up with the float and save you some money on copper pipe.

You'll also get a hang for when you want to shut down and how much sap you have in the head tank. So since you are wood fired and you want to stop for the night, your still going to have hot boiling sap, hot ashes, and a hot arch. So you'll still continue to evaporate till everything cools off. So you want to make sure you still have some sap in your head tank to allow for some more evaporation. I know some guys flood the pans at the end of the night, forcing the float to add more sap than is needed. It will work, but remember it will take you longer to get going the next time you boil and will be slower to "catch-up" to the correct level the float is set to.

You won't hurt anything boiling water for a while, put a bunch of water in your feed tank, and crank it up. You won't hit 217, but at least you can see what happens, and also see how the float works when you draw off some on the syrup end of the pans etc. Just training, but better to try with water, than sap / syrup.

[Pete33Vt]

The amount of sap you have at shut down is a big thing with wood. Its a learning prosses. Its better to really flood the pans than to lose the rig, or sugar house. The longer you have been boiling the hotter your rig will be. You allow your float to let in more sap, ( with us it about to the top of the pipe in the back pan). Then we do our clean up. Wash down the rig, clean up the floor, etc.. than you can judge how much your pan evaportates down to. Yes some times you can get to much in and it will take a while to get it to the right level again. But its better safe then sorry. Just make sure you leave enough sap in your holding tank and you will be fine. Also when you are boiling make sure you have few pails of sap that are close at hand, just incase. Its alot easier to have them to dump right in then to have to run around to find something to cool the rig down. I know a bunch of people are nice to have in the sugar house, but just make sure you don't get distracted, for the first few boils. I've seen a sugar house burn to the ground.(with the whole season syrup in it). To this day we are not sure what happened, But it can a does happen. I'm not trying to scare you off, just hoping to help you avoid mistakes. Sugaring is a learning experiance and can be a life long hobby. Once it in your blood you are hooked.
Good luck
To bad its to far for me to go I'd like to help out in person. But the wife might frown on me going that far to boil.
Any question just ask.
Pete

[royalmaple]

Pete's got a very good point. I also plumbed in a bypass valve ahead of the float that went over the flue pan on my last rig. I think there are some pics in my folder. This was my Holy $*&^% button. Just incase I needed a charge of sap in a hurry, I could just hit the valve open and voila.

BUT, I did have one night last year when I needed it, and I had no idea but my head tank was frozen solid, -20 degrees and took about 30 mins to slush and freeze right up. So valve did me no good. Certainly a bucket right handy is an excellent thing to have. Or at least a bucket full of water if you are out of sap.

[brookledge]

Another note about your feed line. If the float was 1" pipe you should keep your feed line the same or larger. When the float calls for alot of sap you want a good supply and fast. Also remember that the flow is only gravity feed so there is not alot of pressure on the float.
If it where me I would adapt the 1" up to 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" . You can get clear tubing and run it to your head tank that way it is flexible and also you can see through it.
Keith

[Pete33Vt]

ByPass valve!! HuH Now why didn't I think of that. Great idea!!!
Also you can use a clear tube to have a visual check on the amount of sap in your feed tank. It takes alittle bit of figureing out to get it line up with the bottom of your tank, but once you do you can mark where you should shut down at. Make sure this mark is very visable. We have a red zip ty that we never move, Thats shut down and a blue one that we can slide up and down to keep track of our boiling rate.

[the old guy]

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT! I LIKE THE BY-PASS IDEA. CAN'T WAIT TO GET STARTED. I AM REPAIRING THE ARCH WITH SOME REFRACT CEMENT FILLING THE CRACKS. ALSO IS IT BETTER TO USE 1/2 OR 1 INCH THICK RAIL GASKET? THE RAILS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE. THE BLOWER HAS ONLY ONE SPEED? CAN YOU WIRE IN A HI-LO SWITCH SOME WAY OR IS THERE EVEN A NEED TO? FRED TELLS ME THE FASTER I CAN RUN IT THROUGH THE EVAPORATOR THE HIGHER GRADE SYRUP I'LL HAVE.

LOOKING TO ADD MORE TAPS
THE OLD GUY

[brookledge]

1/2" gasket should be all you need between the arch and the pans. I think the gasket between the syrup and flue pan should be about 1" thick. That will be determined when you connect the pans together what you have for a distance between them. Maybe 1/2" will work there also.
AS for your blower all you need is a variable reostat available at a local hardware store or electrical supply store. Just make sure it is capable of the voltage and amperage of your motor. The motor on the blower will have that info on it.
Fred is right about making a higher grade syrup if you keep yor level down. However I don't recommened you start off below 1 1/2" or even 2" until you get used to everything. Then as you feel more comfortable you can lower the level in the pans which will make the sap travel through faster.
Keith

[Russell Lampron]

You may not need a gasket between the front and rear pan at all, my pans are so tight that I can't fit anything between them. The 1/2 inch rail gasket works well for small evaporators.

Russ

[Pete33Vt]

One thing to remember with your blower is to shut it off when firing. I've forgotten a few times but remembered in a hurry when I opened the doors. We put in a variable speed switch, with a plug in. So when you get your speed where you want it you can put a mark on the switch or just unplug the blower. An on off switch , plus varaiable speed also works. But as was stated make sure your motor will handle a switch. I know of one guy that uses a damper in the pipe going from the blower to the arch. But his setup had the blower blowing into the front of his rig instead of the back of the syrup pan. Thats the fun part of sugaring trying different things to see what works the best for you.

[mountainvan]

The woven arch to pan web gasket is my choice. Iv'e had it no my rig for four years, have even taken the pressure washer to it. Can't do that with ceramic wool. As for the blower I leave mine on all the time. A couple sparks come out the front door, but I fire quickly.

[White Barn Farm]

I started out shutting my fan off when I fired but then sometimes forget to turn it back on. :( I just fire fast and have little problems. I have it on a reostat and run it almost full blast. I recycled a bathroom exhaust fan (100cfm) did a little tin work, and am happy with the results. When I am ready to shut down I turn the blower off first and the boil dies so fast I can coast easier. Can't imagine boiling without it.

[the old guy]

WE TOOK THE BLOWER OFF TO MOVE THE UNIT AND CLEAN IT UP SOME. HERE IS WHAT WE FOUND. THE BLOWER IS A 12" SQUIRREL CAGE BLOWER. ON ONE SIDE OF THE BLOWER THE FAN INTAKE IS RESTRICTED BY A PIECE OF PARTICLE BOARD CUT IN A CIRCLE. THE OTHER SIDE HAS A PIECE OF 10" GALVANIZED CHIMNEY PIPE ABOUT 12" LONG STICKING OUT. IT IS FASTENED TO THE BLOWER HOUSING BUT IS NOT ALL THE WAY NOTCHED TOGETHER. MAYBE THE GUY THAT HAD THIS MACHINE TRIED TO RESTRICT AIR FLOW THIS WAY. YOU CAN TELL THAT THE EVAPORATOR HAS NOT BEEN USED FOR SEVERAL SEASONS. THE DISTRIBUTION PIPE AND DRAIN VALVES ARE FADED AND SOME OF THE FIREBRICK IN THE ARCH IS CRUMBLING AND NEED TO BE REPLACED OR SEALED. THE ARCH HAS SOME ARCHBOARD LINING IT BUT THE FIREBOX IS NOT COMPLETLY SEALED WITH ARCHBOARD EVEN THOUGH IT DOES HAVE THE FULL SIZED FIREBRICK STILL INTACT. OUR SUGAR SEASON STARTS HERE ABOUT THE FIRST WEEK OF FEBRUARY. I JUST HOPE WE CAN GET THE RIG READY BY THEN. LUCKY WE HAVE SOME WOOD ALREADY SPLIT TO 2" X 18" (MOSTLY WILD CHERRY AND OAK) I AM TRYING TO GET SOME PICTURES LINED UP TO PUT ON. ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU GUYS HAVE JUST CHIME IN. WE ARE LEARNING.

THE OLD GUY
2 X 6 DOMINION GRIMM

[Justin Turco]

Speaking of getting into trouble. Just opening the doors will help slow things down too. It has saved me a time or two.

[Sugarmaker]

old Guy, ( and by the way how old is old?)
I may have missed this but you said you had two plugs. These could be the plugs that fit in a opening between the front and rear pan? If so one of these needs to be in place so the syrup will concentrate in the front pan. Generally speaking your syrup will be made in the front pan closest to where you put in the plug. In other words the raw sap has to travel through the evaporator and is drawn off the side of the evaporator where the rear and front pans are plugged. If you already had this figured out sorry for rambling on.

Regards,
Chris

[the old guy]

CHRIS

I AM A 62 YEAR OLD RETIRED SCHOOL TEACHER. MY MAPLE SYRUP PARTNER AND I GOT THIS NAME WHEN WE WERE VISITING INDIANA' LARGEST MAPLE SYRUP PRODUCER. WE STOPPED AT THE LOCAL DAIRY QUEEN TO ORDER A PEANUT BUSTER PARFAIT. WHEN WE WENT TO PAY, THE LITTLE GIRL BEHIND THE COUNTER SAID "HEY, YOU WANT THE OLD- GUYS -DISCOUNT?" WELL THE REST IS HISTORY.

I KINDA FELT THAT THE PLUGS WERE USED FOR MORE THAN JUST REVERSING THE PAN. WE HAVE GOT THE ARCH IN PLACE AND ARE WAITING FOR THE BUILDING TO BE ENCLOSED. WE WILL THEN SET THE TANK TO FEED THE EVAPORATOR.

I HAVE VISITED YOUR WEB SITE OFTEN. I THINK IT IS COOL. I MAY HAVE TO ORDER SOME SYRUP FROM YOU SOON. MY SON COACHES A HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL TEAM AND I TOLD THEM THAT I WOULD FIX THEM PANCAKES AND SAUSAGE WITH HOME MADE MAPLE SYRUP EVERYTIME THEY WIN. THEY HAVE ABOUT CLEANED ME OUT OF MAPLE SYRUP SO FAR THIS SEASON. I DO NOT THINK THIS IS WHAT MOTIVATES THEM TO WIN, BUT EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS.

HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS.

THE OLD GUY

[HanginAround]

old Guy, ( and by the way how old is old?)
I may have missed this but you said you had two plugs. These could be the plugs that fit in a opening between the front and rear pan? If so one of these needs to be in place so the syrup will concentrate in the front pan. Generally speaking your syrup will be made in the front pan closest to where you put in the plug. In other words the raw sap has to travel through the evaporator and is drawn off the side of the evaporator where the rear and front pans are plugged. If you already had this figured out sorry for rambling on.

Regards,
Chris

I'm not sure if will help or hinder your understanding... but in most evaporators, plugs are not left in place while you boil, the sap has to be able to flow from pan to pan unhindered (except where governed by a float). In some evaps, plugs are used to reverse sides etc. Sorry Chris, but the way it was written, I thought it might be interpreted as being used to stop the flow between the flue pan and the syrup pans while he is boiling, and he would be in real danger of burning his syrup pans. Use the plugs for that purpose only when you're swapping pans for cleaning, etc. as this has to be done several times during the season, and you don't want to drain your flue pan to swap out your syrup pans.

[Fred Henderson]

Ya and if you have a reverse flow you don't have to swap any pans.