falling bulk prices

[Butcher]

Just want an opinion on the price of bulk plummeting in the near future due to so much expansion. In talking to a few people I've been told that bascoms is no longer buying, at some point it seems like there will be way more syrup than can be sold and it seems this may already be happening. Just throwin it out there, especially for people who sell there sap and getting 10 cents a point or less when the price does drop, almost wouldn't seem like doing it would be worth while.

[heus]

With the record-setting season that so many producers had this was bound to happen. A market "correction."

[markcasper]

Just want an opinion on the price of bulk plummeting in the near future due to so much expansion. In talking to a few people I've been told that bascoms is no longer buying, at some point it seems like there will be way more syrup than can be sold and it seems this may already be happening. Just throwin it out there, especially for people who sell there sap and getting 10 cents a point or less when the price does drop, almost wouldn't seem like doing it would be worth while.As they say....the cure for high prices is high prices. I will have to think that if the prices drop and if you can't get rid of it, this will limit the future expansion.

[jmayerl]

Bulk price here is 2.70/all table grades right now. High demands over seas has not dropped off, and it seems that sales here at the house our strong now that all the idiots that were selling on Craigslist for $8 a quart are out of syrup.

[tuckermtn]

I was speaking with Bascoms last week and no indication of them not buying bulk.

[wiam]

I was told last Monday from Highlands they are "full". This was after being told twice about 3 weeks ago I would get a call back. :(

[Mark]

Bulk price here is 2.70/all table grades right now. High demands over seas has not dropped off, and it seems that sales here at the house our strong now that all the idiots that were selling on Craigslist for $8 a quart are out of syrup.

Who is paying that much in Wisconsin?

[maple flats]

Wow, I'm glad I sold mine earlier this month. I had 150 gal B and C that had accumulated over the last 5 years, only 30 of that was from 2013 and only 20 gal B, no C was from 2012. I re heated, filtered again and took it to a local buyer who buys for Highland. They only bought for 3 days, then Highland picked it up.
I would have held it and continued blending with lighter syrups to make Dark A, but I needed the room because I am building an addition on the sugarhouse. Besides, it took a lot of light to blend in great tasting C to end up with Dark A.

[markct]

Knowing how Bruce is as a businessman i find it hard to believe they would stop buying bulk at any time. The buying price may go way down if they were low on storage or cash but im pretty sure if he could buy it at the right price he would find a place to store it! And there website still says they are looking to buy increasingly larger quanities of syrup. To me sounds like a rumor started by someone looking to buy bulk cheap.

[markcasper]

From what I was told there is a large need for dark syrup and commercial grade. The bulk buyers are making you wait a spell to work through the syrup which is understandable. As far as drastically falling prices, I have not heard of that and would see that kind of hard to believe since Quebec has a set price which I think is keeping prices stable in the US. Alot of rumors get going and people should really watch what they say unless they know it to be fact.
On a side note...I was at a seminar last winter and a Leader rep, David Butler was on record of saying how the foreigners want to buy US syrup over Canadian any day. He said the best thing is for more production in the US and for prices in the $2.00 - $2.70 lb. range to keep everyone happy.

[sapman]

I asked Bruce about his take on things at the open house, since I'm considering expansion. Of course he's always optimistic, saying it is a good time to expand. Like he'll ever tell you not to spend more money. But he said "commitments", or opinions, rather, are for at least $2.50/lb next year.

[madmapler]

Another thing that adds optimistically to the future of the maple industry is the fact that its non GMO. Genetically modified foods are getting an ever increasing amount of press these days and the majority of our sugars are just that. While cane sugar is still safe, sugar from sugar beets is GMO. Most related to maple is pancake syrup which is mainly high fructose corn syrup all of which is GMO(Unless its certified organic). Most countries overseas including Russia,France and China have identified the hazards surrounding genetically modified organisms and in the US.,Vermont was recently the first state to pass this legislation with many other states to soon follow. FYI, Monsanto has threatened to sue us. The point is that there is an ever increasing awareness as to the benefits of natural foods(and not just among the crunchy nuts). Maple is sure to reap some benefits from that. No offense to the CNs. You knew it first.:)

[markct]

I asked on Bascoms facebook page if there was any truth to the rumor they stopped buying syrup and heres there reply

"We are still buying syrup. No immediate plans to stop buying either."

So as i guessed its just a rumor to try and make folks scared and sell there syrup cheap. I agree as others have said syrup is no gmo which is a big plus as that is a hot subject lately and we are one of the alternatives to that. I already have many friends who use granular maple sugar almost exclusivly in place of white sugar as its a product they know and trust unlike white sugar and all its chemicals

[markcasper]

Another thing that adds optimistically to the future of the maple industry is the fact that its non GMO. Genetically modified foods are getting an ever increasing amount of press these days and the majority of our sugars are just that. While cane sugar is still safe, sugar from sugar beets is GMO. Most related to maple is pancake syrup which is mainly high fructose corn syrup all of which is GMO(Unless its certified organic). Most countries overseas including Russia,France and China have identified the hazards surrounding genetically modified organisms and in the US.,Vermont was recently the first state to pass this legislation with many other states to soon follow. FYI, Monsanto has threatened to sue us. The point is that there is an ever increasing awareness as to the benefits of natural foods(and not just among the crunchy nuts). Maple is sure to reap some benefits from that. No offense to the CNs. You knew it first.:) Excellent point regarding the non GMO of syrup, BUT I have heard reports of biotech companies now fiddling around with genetically modifying trees. Its hard to find out information on this, maybe someone such as Dr. Tim would know?

We have planted GMO corn and soybeans on the farm and have since stopped and went back to conventional. The cattle can't digest the GMO corn very well, the stalks don't rot like they used making the tires worthless sooner on the equipment. If the cattle are given a GM field of corn stalks to graze and a field of conventional stalks, they will always go after the non-GMO first. This should tell us dumb humans something! Here in Wisconsin it has went from dairy state to GMO corn utopia state. Hundreds and hundreds of dairy farms out, and big bins and corn in. "Get rid of the cows and build BIG bins". This is all going to come home to bite everyone someday.

I'm glad you brought up the GMO topic because that is encouraging for the industry. I am a firm believer that the GMO crops have played a large part in the honeybee collapse's of late as well. It's good to see the press picking up on the GMO's, still most people don't get it, but its slowly coming around. Your state of VT is going to be the guinea pig trying to fight monsanto, that is one corrupt revolving door between them, USDA, and the FDA.

[DrTimPerkins]

... I have heard reports of biotech companies now fiddling around with genetically modifying trees.

I am not aware of any research aimed at producing genetically modified maple trees.

[madmapler]

Mark,
Thanks for the first hand experience. I dont mean to deviate further from this thread topic but you cant help but wonder what we're ingesting ourselves. Strawberries inserted with the DNA of a flounder(thats right..a fish!) to make them cold resistant? Flounderberries? Really? I've also heard rumors about some fast growing trees out west somewhere but I cant honestly confirm that they're genetically modified although it sounds right. Dr. Perkins would know better.

[DrTimPerkins]

I've also heard rumors about some fast growing trees out west somewhere but I cant honestly confirm that they're genetically modified although it sounds right.

The fast growing maple trees are not GMO. They are produced using RPM (root pruning method), which is just a way to induce the seedlings to produce rapid growth. There hasn't been a lot of real data yet on whether or not this method actually does produce faster-growing trees here in the northeast. The company producing them went belly-up a few years ago. Not sure if there is another that has started producing them again. We have several hundred seedlings we've planted here at UVM PMRC, and I know there are some also planted at the Cornell Uihlein station. Dr. Mike Farrell would know more about that.

Other available trees (St. Lawrence Nursery) are genetically-selected seedlings or tree seedlings that have been bred for different characteristics (typically sweeter sap), but these are also not GMO.

[markcasper]

Mark,
Thanks for the first hand experience. I dont mean to deviate further from this thread topic but you cant help but wonder what we're ingesting ourselves. Strawberries inserted with the DNA of a flounder(thats right..a fish!) to make them cold resistant? Flounderberries? Really? I've also heard rumors about some fast growing trees out west somewhere but I cant honestly confirm that they're genetically modified although it sounds right. Dr. Perkins would know better.

GMO is a very touchy subject with many farmers, mainly grain farmers. Being that we used them before, I know first hand that there are benefits of using them. Most of them lead to being able to handle more acreage and making more $$$ because of less labor and fuel. If your just selling the grain versus feeding it to your cattle, that usually has alot to do with your outlook on GMO's.

Yes, this thread got majorly hi-jacked, I apologize for my part of that.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I don't sell any in bulk but I had nearly double to sell this year retail than I have ever had in the past and I am 95% sold out which putting that into perspective is about 300% increase in sales over the same periods in the past. I have seen a huge explosion in the demand for locally produced organic products which I think will continue to grow and the area I am in is seeing some of the worst economic conditions in the entire country with our wonderful president trying to eliminate coal.

[220 maple]

I walked another potential bush Wednesday with a equipment dealer who also buys a lot of syrup, he said he heard that Highland Sugarworks and Andersons both had all the syrup they needed and was not buying anymore at the present time.

Mark 220 Maple