vacuum for bender releaser help

[tcross]

Let me start of by saying this is the 2nd year I'll be sugaring. I did roughly 50 taps last year with regular buckets and 5 gallon buckets and a home made block arch! it worked out well, and ended up with about 6 gallons of syrup! Now I want to expand and do about 200 taps on vacuum (50 on buckets)with the possibility of doing 350 (on vacuum)max in years to come! probably a big jump, but what the hell! I picked up a bender releaser from a farmer however, he didn't have a pump I could use! I've read a lot about a sp11 and a bb3 or sp22! I've put in word with a few farm supply dealerships and hopefully one will find one of those pumps! if they don't, what is the style of pump that I would need to work the bender with? I understand i'd probably need a rotary vain pump of a diaphragm pump. will any of those style pumps work? i'm looking for an electric motor if possible? am I right with assuming i'll need somewhere around a 3/4-1hp motor with 3-4 cfm??

any help or suggestions would be much appreciated!

[madmapler]

A few things I can tell you is Your releaser will probably handle a max of about 250 or so taps when things are flowing well. I had about 100 taps on my releaser last year and on good days it was pretty busy. Those pumps you mentioned are an awful lot of pump for what your talking about. I used a gast rotary vein pump I got off ebay and It worked really well with the bender. A lot of guys go with that combination for the amount of taps your talking about. You can research their pumps at www.gastmfg.com/ . The 1550 is a popular one. The 2565 or the 2065 are even better. They come up on ebay quite often. Some say 1 cfm per 100 taps but I personally would shoot for 1 cfm for 50. The more the sap is flowing the more cfms you need to maintain good vacuum. Keep in mind that the cfms and the hgs on the gast site are the maximum capability of that pump. The hgs. they list are what it does at 0 cfms. Thats not letting any air pass at all. The more air it pumps (or more taps you use) the more your hgs will drop.

[spencer11]

You will want at least a 7 or 8 cfm pump, I would recomend a gast pump, or an sp 22, both are really good pumps and will run high vac, when you max out your taps on vac you will want to get a real releaser to replace the bender, it will handle more taps and will run high vac unlike the bender. Which is only good for about 20" max

[Mike's Sugar Shack]

I used a gast 1550 rotary vane pump i had it setup with a 1hp electric motor.It worked awesome all year and i had 200 taps on it. I had 17 inches of vacuum all year once i fixed all my leaks. All i can say is that i will always use vacuum now that i see what a difference it makes.I had probally $400 dollars in my whole set up.

[BreezyHill]

These units will work fine as long as they are set up correctly. There is a video on you tube of a glass bender reciever/releaser setup next to a pvc pipe that is connect to the mainline. If the pvc was setup with a filter this would be a benefit, but it isnt the most efficient setup. Much more effiecient with manifold connect to releaser with pump below releaser. The pump sends sap to storage from the releaser when the releaser is mostly full or whereever the probe is set for.

Have you seen the cfm studies that Steve Childs has completed? This study will totally change how tappers setup tubing systems. The long and short of the study is that tubing does not and can not conduct cfms over distance...no matter how big the pump, at 400' of 1" a 15 cfm to a 100 cfm are quantatatively equal in cfm.

I have or can get what you need. What reciever do you have, how many taps are you looking to do, did you get the pump that connects to the reciever jar?

Ben

[lpakiz]

Ben,
There are two types of Bender releases. I think we are referring to a vacuum operated, manual releaser, which dumps by gravity to a tank below. You are describing an electric one, with probes and a pump.

[Mike's Sugar Shack]

I have a pump and jar like you are talking about if anybody is interested in it.

[BreezyHill]

What size and how much?
Ben

[Mike's Sugar Shack]

It is a 3/4 hp pump and it is the big glass jar also have some stainless piping and stuff. Throw out a offer.I think it would be hard to ship you would probally have to pick it up.

[tcross]

Thanks for the info guys... it's much appreciated! the bender I have is a large glass one. it dumps by gravity! i'm pretty sure I can get my hands on one before next season, but if I don't gravity will work for a year!

[lastwoodsman]

You can see mine work ink if u follow my utube link. It has worked just fine for me the last two yrs with the gast 1550 on it.
Woodsman

[BreezyHill]

Mike send me some pic of what you got, I am working on being a cdl dealer and have a bunch of guys that are looking for equipment. bhffeed@msn.com

[tcross]

a watched the video woodsmen! nice! I actually saw it about a month ago when I was thinking of how to set up a vacuum unit and one reason I decided to get the bender! Thanks!

[tcross]

could any rotary vane pump be hooked up to a bender releaser and be used for sugaring, as long as it has enough cfm's and horse power to handle the taps? I see a lot of them on ebay but have not found the specific models mentioned. i see a lot of RV pumps and HVAC pumps! I still have a lot of time to find the mentioned pumps, but as fall grouse season and deer season comes my time gets limited! if I could pick one up fairly cheap I could always use it as a back up when and if I find a gast or a better mfg pump!

[lastwoodsman]

I am running a Gast 1550 and you can find them on E-bay all the time.

Woodsman

[madmapler]

I just looked on ebay and theres a few decently priced 1550s. Theres also a newly listed 2565 on there that looks real nice. The 2565 is quite a bit bigger than the 1550. Its $250 obo. Go on ebay and type in gast 2565 or gast 1550.

[tcross]

Thanks Sean!!!!! i'll check it out tonight!

[tcross]

found a gast 1550 on ebay... asking $200 shipped! seems reasonable, but I know nothing about how much those go for... is that good price?

[BreezyHill]

Here is a link to the gast data specs page.
http://www.gastmfg.com/product_detail.aspx?ProductID=134&ProductTypeID=21

I have stayed away from these; due to they are only saying it will max out at 20". This does not mean that it can not go higher when in great shape, with close tolerances. The cfms are great, but the max vac will be a limiting factor for peak production.

Lastwoodsman can you weigh in on what kind of vac levels you are getting at the pump and on the end of the line?

Keep in mind 5-7% increase in sap production for every inch of vac above 15" at the tap hole. If you max out at 22 at the pump expect in the upper teens at the hole on a well designed tubing system.

I don't see why it cant be a starter unit that you can sell in the future and likely get your investment back on if the levels are not where you need them.

Good luck on the bidding!

[BreezyHill]

Ok...I was Wrong...checked into the specs on the 1550...stay clear...only rated for 20"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GAST-Model-2065-V4C-T334-VACUUM-PUMP-COMPRESSOR-3-4-HP-115-DAYTON-MOTOR-/151059671744?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item232bdbaac0

this is also on ebay...gast 2065 28" max vac BIN is 280 plus 77 S&H.

You can make up that difference in a week of sap with the higher vac or on just one day that would have been a poor run on gravity. High vac pays big dividens....just be prepared for the increase in sap production. It will surprise you when you have been working on gravity.

If you get this one turn the moisture trap so the water will stay in the bottle. It is up side down in pics.


Good Luck

Ben

[madmapler]

The 1550 is'nt the best gast pump to use but its not bad and that is a good price if you're just getting started. You'll have plenty of other things to invest in as I'm sure you already know. Do'nt stress yourself. You can always sell it and replace it with a better one after you start making the big bucks.:lol:FYI, I actually got my 1550 up to 24hgs by running it on a gas engine. It was running about 2000 rpms instead of the 1750 thats recommended. I'm not suggesting that though.

[tcross]

i'm thinking if I can get it for $175-@200 im going to. It is set up with an electric motor which is what i'd like... I figure any vacuum is better then no vacuum and it will be my first year on vacuum and tubing. last year was all on buckets. It was fun, but an awful lot of work!

[madmapler]

If that includes the motor as well then its a great price. If the veins ever go they're simple to replace. You can usually get them on ebay as well or at grainger.com.

[lastwoodsman]

My 1550 runs a steady 18 hgs at the ends of two 400 foot lines. It sounds like by what other folks are saying that I pretty typical.
I myself have been watching which ones pull higher vacuum. Currently I am running about 250 taps on the vacuum.
Woodsman

[spencer11]

Does anyone know how to tell what model a pump is? I have a gast one that I had pulling about 25" at he pump, but I don't know what kind it is, it is a gast pump

[whalems]

Does anyone know how to tell what model a pump is? I have a gast one that I had pulling about 25" at he pump, but I don't know what kind it is, it is a gast pump
there should be a plate on the pump with the model number on it. Post some pics so we can help ID it.

[spencer11]

Ill look for the plate in a little bit when im home, and ill try to get some pics up to