Sugar house design / food saftey regulations

[Brian Ryther]

If I were to be building a new sugar house what will the future food processing safety regulations require?

[Michael Greer]

That's a bit of a crystal ball question, but I was at the farmers market last Saturday, and there was a good bit of grumbling going on about new health dept regulations. Things like "If a deer poops in the field, you can't pick produce near it." "Even though the park serves as a dog walking area all week, farmers will not be allowed to bring their dog to market." "You can't put boxes of produce on the ground." and "You can't sell produce on a rainy day unless you have a tent"
If these things are any hint of what might be coming in the sugarhouse, we'll soon be required to have high temperature dishwashers and hairnets.

[TheMapleMoose]

I guess without knowing what the requirements would be I would just focus on building an environment that is easy to keep clean. Concrete floors, possibly epoxy painted or sealed. Wall coverings that can stand up to scrubbing and sanatizing, floor drains, hot water, restroom, etc.

[GeneralStark]

I have been looking at a parcel of land in a neighboring town to purchase for a home site and sugarhouse. We met with the town zoning administrator (who is also a sugarmaker and is quite involved in the industry) about some questions we had about some plans we have so we can be sure the land will work for us. The question of the sugarhouse came up and any specific requirements from the town's perspective. Not major issues there with the town but we did discuss some potential things to consider from the Ag Department's perspective, but it seems that the old don't ask too many questions rule is being applied by many in this situation.

Things I am thinking should be included are:

-Running water
-2-3 bay stainless sink for washing up, and associated hot water heater.
-Concrete floor with floor drain in evap. room and RO Room. Still uncertain as where these drains will drain to.
-Stainless steel counters for bottling and packaging.
-Lighting appropriate for food production facility ie sealed bulbs.

Our plan is to have visitors to the sugarhouse so that will certainly mean keeping things clean and orderly and the setup and design will focus on that.

It does seem that there is not yet any real consistent requirement for small retail operations, but that may be changing soon.

[802maple]

As far as Vermont goes, I would follow the guidelines that are going to go into effect when you get Certified. If you contact Mary Croft, secretary of The Vermont Maple Sugarmakers association, I would bet she can send you a copy of the score sheet that will be used for the certification. 802 763 7435.

[wiam]

As far as Vermont goes, I would follow the guidelines that are going to go into effect when you get Certified. If you contact Mary Croft, secretary of The Vermont Maple Sugarmakers association, I would bet she can send you a copy of the score sheet that will be used for the certification. 802 763 7435.

That score sheet can be downloaded here. http://vermontmaple.org/sugarmakers/join-vmsma/certification-program/?doing_wp_cron=1369249683.4873030185699462890625

[GeneralStark]

Thanks Wiam. Nothing too surprising there, and it all seems pretty reasonable. I'm glad to see no mention of a toilet as an acquaintance suggested this possibility.

Is it safe to say that the possible FDA inspections will be using the same criteria?

[wiam]

I have not heard anything about FDA.

I feel some of the points need adjusting. Only 5 point for non-food grade?

[maple man-iac]

If a producer is an idiot using non food grade items said producer is going to fail on many other criterias thus not receiving a certification. Five or ten points, whatever.

[GeneralStark]

Coming back to the sink, it seems that there no clear suggestion by the State of VT at this time how to handle wastewater from the sink. In the new sugarhouse I am setting up there will be a sink and the plan at this point is to connect its drain to our septic tank and leach field. The two floor drains will day light, and ro water will go to the ro room floor drain. Some folks have suggested just running the sink to daylight as well but I am concerned that this my come back and bite me in the *** as these regs. get more specific.

I think these regulations are a good thing and it is only a matter of time before they are mandatory. That said, it does seem that if the state or feds are going to require a sink or "washing station" in a sugarhouse, they should provide some insight as to where that sink should drain to so there are no issues in the future. I predict that in the next several years it will be required to go to a state approved septic system as more people start asking this question. It seems to me that it is best to be prepared for this. The engineers that did our wastewater design and application have worked for a couple large sugarmakers that are producing large quantities of ro and cleaning water. When they contacted the state dept. of ag. regarding how to handle this water, they received no clear response.

[PerryFamily]

As rar as the sink, I think you are right in with not daylighting it. I have done a lot of work for a large organic veggie farm and one biggie was "open drains " I have spent a lot of time at that farm correcting drain issues. The last thing there was a waste water system for the commercial kitchen. All the floor drains either needed to be abandoned or connected to the system and a 4" trap was installed to keep gases from coming back into the kitchen. It was like $8ka to handle a three bay sink, 4 drains and a bathroom.

One thing with the septic if going new, make sure your designer designs the system to handle the additional flow. Will save alot of hassle later.

As far as RO water, I thought PH was the concern? But have also heard that a waste water system for them may be in the works?

[BreezyHill]

Great to see this discussion!

I own and operate a Dept of Homeland Security Registered feed mill.
This will be a Fed based implementation.
We only were checked by ag & markets until the terrorists threat came to light.

There will be a huge awakening of DHS very soon. Syrup is a food product that can be contaminated easily. There is a video: F.I.R.S.T. is the name from FDA. It is a good watch.
If you really want to know DHS is the place to call. They are good people as long as you are making an effort to comply with the regulations. If you think they do not know of your operation, think again. They have the ability to trace the origin of a single kernel of corn in my mill, today; right back to the farm it was grown in. The same way they can trace a cow that is contaminated to the farm it was born on, from a hamburger patti.

Brian there is an office in Albany, Or talk to ag and markets in Albany. If you need, I will get you a name and number.

Our feed trucks can not be out of the drivers sight when loaded and inspected prior to ever loading. If seals are missing we have a protocol to follow. This will be the future of tanks of sap in the not to distant future. No seal, you will have to notify and have it sampled and dump it, wash the tank, and start all over.

Remember back a few years ago and Topps packing company went out of business after an ecoli issue. They didn't follow protocol. They didn't have a full plant wash down record, for quite some time and had to recall millions of pounds of product.

Do every upgrade you can while the supplies to do so are less expensive. When thousand of producers need to act fast prices will jump. A few upgrades a year are usually bearable; while an entire system overhaul will be very costly.

Start doing batch codes and marking everything with production dates and batch codes. Record everything. Amounts produced, bottled, pan washings, tank washings, products used to wash down, etc.

Sorry if this scares anyone...but this is the world that we live in. Adjust-adapt-survive.

Every notice how the corner butcher shop is gone now? They failed to adjust and adapt.

Ben

[GeneralStark]

As rar as the sink, I think you are right in with not daylighting it. I have done a lot of work for a large organic veggie farm and one biggie was "open drains " I have spent a lot of time at that farm correcting drain issues. The last thing there was a waste water system for the commercial kitchen. All the floor drains either needed to be abandoned or connected to the system and a 4" trap was installed to keep gases from coming back into the kitchen. It was like $8ka to handle a three bay sink, 4 drains and a bathroom.

One thing with the septic if going new, make sure your designer designs the system to handle the additional flow. Will save alot of hassle later.

As far as RO water, I thought PH was the concern? But have also heard that a waste water system for them may be in the works?

We are definitely overdoing the system so no worries there. Wow, floor drains to the septic system. Probably aren't too many sugarhouses set up like that.

I think the ro water thing will blow up with the regulators soon. If you are neutralizing your acid or base cleaners correctly there shouldn't be a big issue with dumping the water, but regulators are getting more and more conservative.