leader revolution 5X14

[thunder mountain maple]

We have a leader revolution 5X14 oil fired that was bought new from leader in 2002. The last two years the flu pan has leaked during the season and gone back to leader to be fixed both times. Leader has told us life expectancy on the pan is only 10 years. Also many excuses such as too much acid to clean the pans, burners running to rich and the pan was not getting enough air during the off season. Basically all our fault, The last leak was on the side of one of the flues up toward the top looks like a bad steel problem to me? Anyone else having problems like this? :confused:

[maple flats]

10 years? They should be ashamed to say that. There are many sets of pans, in fact the majority by far that are over 10 yrs old and have never leaked. This sounds like Leader trying to pass the buck to me. If these causes were what cause early failure of the pans Leader should have an owner's manual (what's that you say) specifying such and ways to eliminate the issues. my 2x6 was 28 yrs old when I sold it, never a leak. My first set of pans on my 3x8 were 12 yrs old when I upgraded to deeper flues, never a leak. I think Leader should stand behind their product. My guess is that they even charged you for the past repairs, plus freight both ways. I'll also bet they didn't offer remedies after the first leak did they?
The maple industry seems to be the only one that builds and sells equipment in the price range they charge where there is no owners manual, no list of maintenance proceedures, and nothing to help you attain the best longevity of the product. They just over price everything and leave you to figure how to use it and care for it.
Even the Honda engine I put on my vacuum pumps comes with a big book giving all this information and that only cost $400, my wife recently bought a dump wagon for $60 and it had a manual, but buy a $8000-$50,000 or more evaporator and you get nothing, buy an RO, nothing and everything else they make.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

10 years? They should be ashamed to say that. There are many sets of pans, in fact the majority by far that are over 10 yrs old and have never leaked. This sounds like Leader trying to pass the buck to me. If these causes were what cause early failure of the pans Leader should have an owner's manual (what's that you say) specifying such and ways to eliminate the issues. my 2x6 was 28 yrs old when I sold it, never a leak. My first set of pans on my 3x8 were 12 yrs old when I upgraded to deeper flues, never a leak. I think Leader should stand behind their product. My guess is that they even charged you for the past repairs, plus freight both ways. I'll also bet they didn't offer remedies after the first leak did they?
The maple industry seems to be the only one that builds and sells equipment in the price range they charge where there is no owners manual, no list of maintenance proceedures, and nothing to help you attain the best longevity of the product. They just over price everything and leave you to figure how to use it and care for it.
Even the Honda engine I put on my vacuum pumps comes with a big book giving all this information and that only cost $400, my wife recently bought a dump wagon for $60 and it had a manual, but buy a $8000-$50,000 or more evaporator and you get nothing, buy an RO, nothing and everything else they make. My thoughts exactly. When it comes to the maple industry and equipment, you are on your own to figure everything out; most of the time the hard way. Neil

[Mark]

What year did Leader start welding pans?

[thunder mountain maple]

We haven't gotten a bill for the last repair yet but we did have to truck the pan up to leader twice.
10 years? They should be ashamed to say that. There are many sets of pans, in fact the majority by far that are over 10 yrs old and have never leaked. This sounds like Leader trying to pass the buck to me. If these causes were what cause early failure of the pans Leader should have an owner's manual (what's that you say) specifying such and ways to eliminate the issues. my 2x6 was 28 yrs old when I sold it, never a leak. My first set of pans on my 3x8 were 12 yrs old when I upgraded to deeper flues, never a leak. I think Leader should stand behind their product. My guess is that they even charged you for the past repairs, plus freight both ways. I'll also bet they didn't offer remedies after the first leak did they?
The maple industry seems to be the only one that builds and sells equipment in the price range they charge where there is no owners manual, no list of maintenance proceedures, and nothing to help you attain the best longevity of the product. They just over price everything and leave you to figure how to use it and care for it.
Even the Honda engine I put on my vacuum pumps comes with a big book giving all this information and that only cost $400, my wife recently bought a dump wagon for $60 and it had a manual, but buy a $8000-$50,000 or more evaporator and you get nothing, buy an RO, nothing and everything else they make.

[thunder mountain maple]

Not sure? Our pans are welded but the hoods are not and the hood on the syrup pan has leaked in the front corner since day one.
What year did Leader start welding pans?

[maple flats]

My first set of 3x8 pans were made in 2001, it was soldered but I was told both were made that year, welding was optional according to the guy I bought the evaporator from.

[Mark]

The early welds did not look good. I can't remember who sold cheaper 410 stainless that was welded and had problems with the welds cracking.

[halfast tapper]

First of all take a magnet and see if it sticks to pan, it should not. If it does poor quality stainless is your answer. Leader had a problem in the mid 90's with poor stainless. Friend of mine has a 5x16 oil fired. we took front pan off at end of season to clean it , and there were about 10 very small pinholes in pan. Leader tried to deny anything wrong, told us we kept our pans too clean...? I don't think so. He stayed after them and they finaly admited to bad batch of stainless when he said he worked at GE and have the capabilities to test the metal for quality. They replaced the front pan and since the flue pan was not leaking they would pro rate it at the time it starts. The flue pan never leaked and in 2001 he got a new set of Revolution pans and have not had a problem at all.

So stay on them , and look for someone that can help with the metal testing. Might get the ball rolling for you.

[TheMapleMoose]

Does Leader (or any mfg) have a written warranty on their equipment? Obviously it's not in the "instruction manual" but just wondering if they had warranty and if it was available in writing.

[TheMapleMoose]

Of course if someone did have a written warranty it would pretty much require a set of operating and/or care instructions.

[maplefrank]

if you go to Leaders website you can download the instructions......and everyone can get access to a computer, not sure if any other company does this, only delt with Leader.

[thunder mountain maple]

Looks like poor stainless to me the last leak was on the side of the flu. Couldn't get to it with a welder so the had to drizzle solder into the leak. Makes you feel good about the fix.

[lew]

halfst tapper,

I have heard this many times "if a magnet sticks to it, it's poor stainless". I can neither agree or disagree with this statement, only tell you my experience. We had a 5x10 leader raised flue that we ran for 15 years on used motor oil. It's life before that was on old motor oil for another 20 years, and it's life before that was 10 years on an unknown fuel. This pan held a magnet quite well, was acid washed every year multiple times and never had a hole in it. So I'm not sure that magnetism has EVERYTHING to do with it.

[Mark]

halfst tapper,

I have heard this many times "if a magnet sticks to it, it's poor stainless". I can neither agree or disagree with this statement, only tell you my experience. We had a 5x10 leader raised flue that we ran for 15 years on used motor oil. It's life before that was on old motor oil for another 20 years, and it's life before that was 10 years on an unknown fuel. This pan held a magnet quite well, was acid washed every year multiple times and never had a hole in it. So I'm not sure that magnetism has EVERYTHING to do with it.
If it is a soldered pan 410 stainless is OK but the problem is welding it. For a quality weld you need 304 or 316

[lew]

Obviously because of its age it was a soldered pan. Couldn't tell you if it was 410, 304, 316 etc., I don't know the difference. It was dull in appeareance. I thought the fella had a problem with leaks half way down a a flue, if so would this be because of a weld, or poor stainless?

[Mark]

Obviously because of its age it was a soldered pan. Couldn't tell you if it was 410, 304, 316 etc., I don't know the difference. It was dull in appeareance. I thought the fella had a problem with leaks half way down a a flue, if so would this be because of a weld, or poor stainless?

Your right, I went back and read that again. It never entered my mind that it was not on a seam. I have seen stainless corrode through when set on a cement floor and the pan had soot on it. Also muriatic acid which is hydrochloric acid will burn right through stainless if left too long. Tried that once and ruined a pan.

[halfast tapper]

halfst tapper,

I have heard this many times "if a magnet sticks to it, it's poor stainless". I can neither agree or disagree with this statement, only tell you my experience. We had a 5x10 leader raised flue that we ran for 15 years on used motor oil. It's life before that was on old motor oil for another 20 years, and it's life before that was 10 years on an unknown fuel. This pan held a magnet quite well, was acid washed every year multiple times and never had a hole in it. So I'm not sure that magnetism has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Magnetism has nothing to do with it corroding, it is a way to determine poor quality stainless that has more carbon in it and is more like regular steel and because it is poor quality stainless it doesn't mean that it is going to rot out it depends on how much carbon there is . The more carbon you have in stainless the poorer the quality and it's ability to resist corrosion.

good quality stainless will not hold a magnet. Your pan was stainless and it was 45 years old? Sure it wasn't english tin.

[lew]

Absolutely, it was stainless. I had a sister to that pan that sat in the back of the sugarhouse for many years on its side. The outside walls of the pan were in excellent shape, however the flues went to hell with thousands of flecks of rust evenly distributed all over the inside of the pan, but only on the flue portion, not the side walls. Under each fleck of rust was a pinhole. The pan was junk. Bothe the flues and the outside walls were magnetic. I don't claim to know a thing about stainless, just sharing my experience.

[Mark]

English tin looks like stainless.

[lew]

Been around sugaring equipment for 25+ years. To me stainless steel has no resemblence to english tin.

[Mark]

Then I guess my memory is wrong, I could of sworn that when I was at Leader in 1972 or 1973 watching them solder pans they said it was english tin. I remember the guy saying the quality of the tin had dropped off and something about moisture between the sheets they got. Or maybe it was why they changed. I asked them about the lead in the solder and if it got into the syrup. They said yes but it was small and a legal amount.

It would be interesting to know when they quit using english tin for evaporators, does anyone know when?

[Bruce L]

We had a flue pan that was stainless 20 years ago, it was the "shiny" version that had nickel in it so it would attract a magnet. Only used it for two seasons, then rust starting appearing on the flues, by the third season the flues looked more like a copper penny with all of the rust on them. Luckily that summer the president of that maple syrup equipment company, which has now been bought out by other companies was speaking at a summer tour 1/2 hour away. I had pictures of the pan in hand, showed it to him, so he offered to follow me home. He took one look, said something about a shipment of stainless coming in from overseas that was splashed with saltwater. The company made me a new pan, just had to make the drive down to Quebec to take back the old pan and pick up the new one, lasted us over 20 years until we replaced with the new set-up from Leader, this one is shiny, but also pure stainless as a magnet will not adhere to any part of the pans or fittings.

[lew]

Mark, not trying to argue with you. I know my particular pans were in use in 1976. And I know for a period of time, evaporator companies were making pans from ss and english tin, your choice. I don't know when this time period was, I just know the history of my particular pans. Like with all things new, there is a learning curve with using new materials. Perhaps when you saw the english tin being soldered, they were also making stainless pans, just not that day, or they were just learning to use it in that time period. I know they had troubles learning how to weld stainless when soldering became an issue. Some of the pans cracked at the weld joints when being fired. Just trying to share my experience with others that may run into the same situation.